Priority to buy accessories?

[EAKlebe]

I've searched but found no information (perhaps my search strategy is defective also). It seems that most owners have replaced the tires, some have "upgraded" to 15" tires using a lift kit, there are constant references to weight distributing hitch and also to brake controllers.

Is there any consensus on the relative priority of acquisition?
I have discovered that the tires on my 1999 3023 definitely need to be replaced, so that is number one. Although the trailer just passed the safety inspection in Maryland and the tires LOOK very good with very little tread wear, I am leery of them. I guess the question is, should I go for the lift kit and upgrade to 15" tires, or is that not really that important for a trailer that will be used for relatively short distance trips (i.e. less than 500 miles)?

I kind of believe that a brake controller is the next priority because I anticipate driving up and down the roads in West Virginia.

Since I am NOT very good at backing up a trailer, and since my co-pilot doesn't seem to be able to understand that one should make large gestures to indicate direction to go, I am determined to get a backup camera system.

FYI my tow vehicle is a Ford F150 V8 4WD.

[OneMoBear]

;) You're going to get some opinions on those tires and a brake controller and I'll leave that to the pros.

As for the backing issue, I'll just say that during those times, Gene and I communicate much better than we did 10 years ago when we bought our Bounder. You might try cheap little CB radios first . . .

Malinda

[Bill]

Wow! You are out there without a brake controller? In other words, with no brakes on your trailer??? Yes, that is your next acquisition, and a necessary one! First, it is required by law - your trailer MUST have its own brakes. It is for your own safety, as well as your family's safety. Your F-150 is not able to stop that trailer in anywhere near the same same distance as it can stop without the trailer. And that is your goal - same or very similar stopping distance. This applies in all terrain, not just the hills of West Virginia. And finally, you are a danger to other vehicles if your trailer has no brakes.

After you've got that, we can all argue about whether the next step is tires or a WDH. I lean toward a WDH myself, but I'm sure we'll get some discussion.

Now, go out and get a Tekonsha Prodigy controller, for about $100 or a little more. Don't try to save a little money by buying a cheaper controller - some of them are downright dangerous. I strongly suggest that you go into the section titled TM Info You Won't Find Anywhere Else at the top of this forum. Scroll down until you find a tutorial by RockyMtnRay about choosing a brake controller. Read it and absorb it. We'd like to keep you (and your family) around for a while.

Bill

[OneMoBear]

I believe someone previously said that you won't need to wonder if you need a WDH, that if you need one you'll know it. We don't have one and have no plans to get one . . . just our thoughts on it.

Malinda

[EAKlebe]

;) You're going to get some opinions on those tires and a brake controller and I'll leave that to the pros.

As for the backing issue, I'll just say that during those times, Gene and I communicate much better than we did 10 years ago when we bought our Bounder. You might try cheap little CB radios first . . .

Malinda

I have considered the little radios, I actually have a set which we used to use to find each other in Groceries and supermarkets....HOWEVER, I could never get her to understand that she didn't have to push the CALL button prior to every transmission.....
Also, the backup camera would certainly useful for those times when I go off by myself.

[MisterP]

As stated earlier, trailer brakes if installed must be operational in every state I know of. The Prodigy is the only controller I would recommend. Some vehicles already have the wiring harness connections installed. If not some dealers sell plug and play kits for specific vehicles.

Then I would replace the tires if they are 1999 vintage. Just make sure the load rating is adequate for your loaded trailer. Remember if you add a WDH later you will add load to the trailer axle.

As far as backing up any trailer teach your spotter to always be where they can see you in your outside rear mirror. If possible back up turning into the drivers side it is easier. If you can't see your spotter or are not sure of clearances stop and look yourself. I try never to blame the spotter for coming too close to anything because I am the driver. These concepts helped us travel for two years in a 38 foot toyhauler. Only clipped one stop sign in a campground.

[EAKlebe]

Wow! You are out there without a brake controller? In other words, with no brakes on your trailer??? Yes, that is your next acquisition, and a necessary one! First, it is required by law - your trailer MUST have its own brakes. It is for your own safety, as well as your family's safety. Your F-150 is not able to stop that trailer in anywhere near the same same distance as it can stop without the trailer. And that is your goal - same or very similar stopping distance. This applies in all terrain, not just the hills of West Virginia. And finally, you are a danger to other vehicles if your trailer has no brakes.

After you've got that, we can all argue about whether the next step is tires or a WDH. I lean toward a WDH myself, but I'm sure we'll get some discussion.

Now, go out and get a Tekonsha Prodigy controller, for about $100 or a little more. Don't try to save a little money by buying a cheaper controller - some of them are downright dangerous. I strongly suggest that you go into the section titled TM Info You Won't Find Anywhere Else at the top of this forum. Scroll down until you find a tutorial by RockyMtnRay about choosing a brake controller. Read it and absorb it. We'd like to keep you (and your family) around for a while.

Bill

No the trailer does, of course, have brakes and the inspection station said that the brakes were fine. However, I did notice that stopping distance was quite a bit farther. I have already read the mentioned thread which was VERY informative. However, I also happened to come across this controller:
http://www.brake-controller.com/brake_controller/trucontrol_silver_features.html which is not that much more than the Tekonsha, but appears to be better. But perhaps it is overkill?

[Joseph]

1. Brakes. Get the TM brakes working with your F-150 first and pronto.

2. Tires. Get load range "D" 14's if you cannot do the lift kit and 15's

3. WDH. For a F-150. Yes. A WDH wouldn't hurt me none either...;)

4. Once you get the safety items on and working THEN get your camera...:D

[MisterP]

One thing to check on any brake controller is the requirement to install it level. The devices contain a small pendulum or accelerometer that must be level to operate correctly. I don't know the unit linked above but one advantage of the Prodigy is that once calibrated it operates correctly even when installed off level. When I had one in my Trailblazer with our former 3124 the shape of the dash required the Prodigy to be at a pretty steep angle. Worked like a charm. Check the level requirement on any controller you are considering.

[EAKlebe]

One thing to check on any brake controller is the requirement to install it level. The devices contain a small pendulum or accelerometer that must be level to operate correctly. I don't know the unit linked above but one advantage of the Prodigy is that once calibrated it operates correctly even when installed off level. When I had one in my Trailblazer with our former 3124 the shape of the dash required the Prodigy to be at a pretty steep angle. Worked like a charm. Check the level requirement on any controller you are considering.


Aha! I thought all the newer proportionals were "no moving parts"....thanks for the heads up....I'll be sure to check on that.

[MisterP]

Aha! I thought all the newer proportionals were "no moving parts"....thanks for the heads up....I'll be sure to check on that.

An accelerometer is not a moving part but in some controllers the unit must still be close to level.

[grakin]

I agree about the brake controller first and foremost - don't tow it out of wherever it is currently parked until you get it installed. It's not tough to install it, your F150 probably has a harness for it under the dash somewhere (assuming you have the towing package), which means it literally just screws into some piece of the dash and plugs into the harness - no advanced technical knowledge is needed. I tow with an F250, which I believe has larger brakes than an F150 - we had a minor brake issue on the way to our current campground (this dumbhead forgot to plug the trailer lights in). Fortunately, it's extremely obvious to me that I had no brakes when I came to the first stop sign and was shocked at how much distance it was taking to slow down - enough to be dangerous. Obviously I immediately stopped, yelled at myself for being in too much of a hurry to do things right, and plugged in the loose connector.

With the brake controller, the F250 stops in about the same distance with the trailer as it does without. That's a good thing when someone on the highway in front of you does something dumb.

After that, I would look into the tow vehicle - does it have the towing package from the factory? If not, you might want to look at things like a transmission cooler. Hopefully your tow vehicle does have it. Also make sure you have LT tires, not P tires, on your truck. If you don't have the LTs now, you'll be amazed at the difference.

I think you can go either way with the WDH - if your vehicle seems to "bonce" a bunch, look into it - but after you make sure you are running max sidewall pressure in your rear tires. I personally didn't feel like I needed a WDH on a 1/2 ton Chevy truck, but I'm sure it would have been a better ride/towing experience if I had one. But I don't think it is a safety issue on a full size truck to not have one.

As for the TM tires, unless they are a few years old, I personally wouldn't, although if I was using a WDH, towed with full tanks, and carried a lot of stuff, that might change my mind - you do transfer some weight from the tongue to the tires if you use a WDH.

One other thing you should get: a good quality (dial-type, not pencil-type) tire gauge. And use it. :)

[Bill]

No the trailer does, of course, have brakes and the inspection station said that the brakes were fine. However, I did notice that stopping distance was quite a bit farther. I have already read the mentioned thread which was VERY informative.I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. Of course the trailer has brakes in the wheel/axle assembly. All TMs have brakes built in, since they are required by law to have them. However, the brakes don't do any braking on their own. It is the controller which puts power to the brakes and causes them to do some braking. Without a controller, the brakes are just a lump of useless inert metal. That is why you noticed that stopping distance is farther, of course. The trailer brakes were not being activated, and the TM probably weighs about as much as your tow vehicle.

I'll be clearer next time around, but the bottom line is that you MUST get and install a controller.

Bill

[Bill]

I also happened to come across this controller:
http://www.brake-controller.com/brake_controller/trucontrol_silver_features.html which is not that much more than the Tekonsha, but appears to be better. But perhaps it is overkill?

I don't see anything wrong with this controller, though I don't see anything special, either. The ad is full of pretty meaningless hype, but in no particular order, I seem to see:

It is proportional, which probably means it is accelerometer-based. So is the Prodigy.

It can detect hydraulic brake systems. But TMs don't have a hydraulic brake system, so why pay for this feature?

It comes with a mounting kit. So does every other controller on the market.

It can provide up to 48 amps to the brakes. But the brakes will accept only 3 amps each, so the brakes on a 3023 can accept only 6 amps. For what it is worth, the Prodigy can provide up to 24 amps, which is also more than is needed.

PWM (pulse width modulated) braking. All controllers - or at least all decent ones - use PWM. The last time I saw a non-PWM-controller was in the 60's.

Deceleration sensor - yup, that's the accelerometer that gives it proportional braking. Just like any other proportional controller.

Automatic short circuit protection. They all have it.

Works in reverse. A lot of controllers, including the Prodgy, boast about this. And perhaps some have it and some don't - but I'm not sure why anyone would need it. If you are backing up at more than 2 mph, you are headed for other troubles. And your truck's brakes can certainly handle the trailer at 2 mph.

Manual emergency button. They all have one.

No need to tap into the tow vehicle's hydraulic brake line. Years ago, again in the 60's, many controllers did tap into the hydraulic brake line. But within the world of RVs and camping trailers, no controller has done this for decades, for two reasons. First, modern cars/trucks are extremely fussy about what is done to their brake lines, so tapping in would probably cause the tow vehicle brakes to fail, and would certainly void any warranty. In addition, a controller doesn't know how to handle the pulsing caused by ABS systems.

Automatic gain adjustment - this is the one feature that I find somewhat intriguing, but since they don't don't actually tell you what it is, it's pretty hard to tell if it is worth any extra cost.

But at the bottom line, the real advantage of the Prodigy is that it is probably the most-used proportional controller, owned by millions of people. And most of those people, like you, are new to electric-brake controllers, and so this speaks well to its ease of installation and use. It also means you can get help, advice, and replacement parts anywhere.

Bill

[Bill]

No the trailer does, of course, have brakes and the inspection station said that the brakes were fine. However, I did notice that stopping distance was quite a bit farther. I have already read the mentioned thread which was VERY informative. However, I also happened to come across this controller:
http://www.brake-controller.com/brake_controller/trucontrol_silver_features.html which is not that much more than the Tekonsha, but appears to be better. But perhaps it is overkill?I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. Of course the trailer has brakes. However, the brakes don't apply themselves. It is the controller which puts power to the brakes and causes them to do some braking. Without a controller, the brakes are just a lump of useless inert metal. That is why stopping distance is farther, of course - the trailer brakes were not being activated.

I'll be clearer next time. But in the meanwhile, you MUST get and install a brake controller.

Bill

[EAKlebe]

grakin wrote:
your F150 probably has a harness for it under the dash somewhere (assuming you have the towing package), which means it literally just screws into some piece of the dash and plugs into the harness - no advanced technical knowledge is needed.
If not, you might want to look at things like a transmission cooler. Hopefully your tow vehicle does have it. Also make sure you have LT tires, not P tires, on your truck.

I bought the truck used. It had a Reese hitch receiver installed, but I don't believe it has a transmission cooler. I'll have to get that checked by the mechanic I use. As to tires: I just had new tires put on: General Grabbers and I'm sure they are LTs.

Re the controller: according to an email I just got from the factory:
The new controller doesn’t require leveling, Edmund. You can mount it anywhere on or under the dash.

Reading the company write up on this controller, you set this controller up by just entering the "trailer - tow vehicle configuration number based upon the weight of the combination." and once set it doesn't have to be reset unless the weight of the trailer changes by more than 2000 pounds.
I read in a posting about setting up the Tekonsha Prodigy controller (perhaps I got the wrong impression) that one had to drive the combination at various speeds and apply the brakes to determine the proper power/gain setting - it sounded like a bit of a complicated process. Is it?

[Scott O]

Well, you have pretty much zeroed in on what you need. The order is not important as they ALL need to be done. You know about the tires, if they are older than 4-5 years replace them, no matter what they look like. 15" would be a priority for me. The brake controller operates the trailer brakes, without one no brakes. We can argue all day about a WDH, but simplest test is to measure bottom of wheel fender top to ground front and back without the TM. Drop the TM...if the back drops more than the front by more than 1/2" you need one. Chances the back will drop and the front will rise, hurting both steering and braking. Hey, no one said it would be cheap!!! And don't get lulled by that old "we don't go far" argument. Most accidents happen close to home...

[B_and_D]

Definitely get the brake controller AND new tires. They're too old. You're just asking for a blowout running tires that old. Buy three new ones before you go anywhere else. Read the posts here about the recommended types, sizes, load range, brands, etc. to buy. Having to deal with a blowout when you're out looking to have a fun weekend camping takes a lot of the "fun" out of it.

We have a Chevy 1500 and we do fine without a weight distributing hitch, but I don't know about your TV so I don't feel qualified to give you an opinion about it.

[mtnguy]

I bought the truck used. It had a Reese hitch receiver installed, but I don't believe it has a transmission cooler. I'll have to get that checked by the mechanic I use.

Almost all automatic transmission have a cooler built into the radiator. With heavy duty work like pulling a trailer, what you need is an auxiliary transmission cooler.

[EAKlebe]

With heavy duty work like pulling a trailer, what you need is an auxiliary transmission cooler.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have an auxiliary cooler. My ABS pump just went out on Friday, so a cooler may just have to wait a while. I'll just have to make sure go slow it down on upgrades and shift it into "2" on long ones. I'm very familiar with the route I'm going to be taking up to Deep Creek Lake in Maryland, so I should be O.K.

[rumbleweed]

You will definitely need the brake controller before you go to Garrett County. If you don't have a full set of real gauges in the 150, you might add a scan gauge to you wish list. It provides access to tons of realtime mechanical data via the ODBII port on your truck.

[EAKlebe]

Definitely get the brake controller AND new tires. They're too old. You're just asking for a blowout running tires that old. Buy three new ones before you go anywhere else. Read the posts here about the recommended types, sizes, load range, brands, etc. to buy. Having to deal with a blowout when you're out looking to have a fun weekend camping takes a lot of the "fun" out of it.

We have a Chevy 1500 and we do fine without a weight distributing hitch, but I don't know about your TV so I don't feel qualified to give you an opinion about it.

As the attached photo indicates, there may have been a blowout in the past,
this is taken beneath the sink and the hole in the paneling is behind the refrigerator, It sure looks like something broke through, and the wheel well looks bulged. Also I pumped up the tires. All of them were down about 20 pounds. The spare has only 20 pounds in it. When I pumped it up, it looked fine -- in fact it still had those little rubber whiskers that are typical of new tires, but I just happened to again check the tire pressure and the tire valve broke off. This spare was a Carlisle and had a date code of 298, so it was probably one of the originals.

[Scott O]

Be sure and put metal stems on the new tires...

[Bill]

Oh, yeah, that is blowout damage. You should do a Search on this board for the rounded wheel well mod. Many of our members have done it. TM uses rounded wheel wells today. They greatly reduce the effect seen in your picture.

Bill

[EAKlebe]

Oh, yeah, that is blowout damage. You should do a Search on this board for the rounded wheel well mod. Many of our members have done it. TM uses rounded wheel wells today. They greatly reduce the effect seen in your picture.

Bill
Yeah, I am already planing on doing that.

[EAKlebe]

You will definitely need the brake controller before you go to Garrett County. If you don't have a full set of real gauges in the 150, you might add a scan gauge to you wish list. It provides access to tons of realtime mechanical data via the ODBII port on your truck.

What is that? I assume some type of automotive piece of equipment?
Sounds expensive.

[EAKlebe]

An update:
I got the Prodigy P3 brake controller and it is installed. I installed it between the "cigarette lighter/auxiliary power port" and the cup holder (which I can now NOT get to go completely back in.) I got 3 brand new Goodyear HGM2020 14" load range D tires (interestingly enough these tires are marked as being the property of U-haul, but I got a warranty card to register them). They are bias ply tires, but are 8 ply rated and have a 2000# weight rating at 65psi. They give me only about 1 inch clearance to the black metal cross piece behind the curb-side tire. (incidentally see the "frame" forum re a question about this).
I am in process of installing a back-up camera system.

[b&pcamping]

Thought I'd post this link from where I bought my controller. We did have a controller on our TV, from towing a smaller popup. It was a Tekonsha Voyager and it failed on our first trip out in our TM. I asked questions about that failure on this forum, Bill and many others urged the purchase of a Tekonsha Prodigy. Our next trip was 2,100 miles round trip with NO troubles!!

http://www.adventurerv.net/tekonsha-prodigy-trailer-camper-brake-control-p-1432.html

Good luck with the rest of your questions. I'm still a newbie in the TM family so I'll limit my answers.
Bruce

[OneMoBear]

Hey Bruce,

We also upgraded from the Voyager to the Prodigy and were very happy to see that .c. coming back down the Rockies yesterday from Golden Gate Canyon State Park :)

Malinda