Going to look at a 2619

[Subman]

Let me start off by saying we have been intrigued by TM for several years. My wife found one for sale near by and we are thinking of taking a look at it. It's a 1997 model 2619. What should we look out for when we check it out? Also the place that has it says it doesn't have AC but in the pics it looks like a window unit is next to the stove. Was this an optional location? Also my tow vehicle, which is a full size truck, has a max towing cap of 3300 lbs. Will I be able to tow this unit without any trouble? The price on this one is also real reasonable, about the same as a popular of the Same age.
Sorry about all the ?s but I want to besure what to look for.
Thanks,
Mark

[Bill]

Mark -

At that time, the standard location for the air conditioner was in a kitchen cabinet, venting out through the sidewall. The A/C was moved up to the roof several years later. In 1997 they used a standard household air conditioner, so even if you have to (or choose to) replace it, it is not expensive. There are a couple threads on this Board about how to do it, but I don't recall that it was hard.

I'm a bit hesitant about your 3300-pound-rated truck. The good news is that in 1997, the trailers were a good deal lighter than they are today (so was I!) The dry weight then was 2270 pounds - by 2012, it was up to 2673 pounds. With a dry weight of 2270 pounds, the loaded and ready-to-camp weight was probably around 2800 pounds, so you would be within your vehicle's limits. We have a few members who tow today's TMs with 3500-pound-rated vehicles, and they report that it works, especially if they load lightly. Depends a good deal on how you load, and whether you plan to tow in mountainous terrain.

The other weight-related item is the tires. In 1997, the 2619 had 13-inch wheels, which would not carry today's weight. Today, Goodyear offers an ST185/80R13 Marathon tire (the brand/model used for today's 14" and 15" tires in current production). These tires are rated at 1480 pounds each, or a total capacity of 2960 pounds. So you would not be over the limit here, either, especially if you pack lightly.

As you look the unit over, you will of course check the appliances to be sure they work (refrig is the big one). Perhaps surprisingly, the 1997 model was equipped very much like today's trailers, so there is no big weight change there. Check the date code on the tires - more than a couple years old is not good.

To me, the only major concern is the possibility of wood rot in the framing of the shells. There was a recent discussion on this topic (and others) here
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17946. Though not aimed at a 2619, the ideas are the same. Check carefully. If the shells are rotted, they are VERY difficult to repair.

Let us know how it comes out.

Bill

[Subman]

Bill,
Thanks for the info. I was wondering about the weight, the 2916 at 2270lbs is lighter than our last pop up, (almost 2700lbs). My truck would tow it when loaded but it didn't like it in hilly country.

I'd already figured on replacing tires if over 4 or 5 years old. A blow out on a trailer is no fun.

We have had 2 pop ups over the last 14 years (a Coleman & Fleetsood) and really like them. But the TM looks to be a better option as I get older. I'm assuming from what I've seen they are as easy tow as a pop up and easier to set

The owner is asking a lot less than what NADA shows so that makes me wonder what shape it's in.

Mark

[Padgett]

Wood framed TMs are lighter than the aluminum/foam ones ? That is a surprise. OTOH I suspect TMs are going to appreciate as they become rarer.

[Lesherp]

You might find these posts helpful.


http:/http://trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16748
www.angelfire.com/trek/buenavistas/RV_checklists/PDI_V113_2.pdf

[Subman]

The more I read about wood rot the more inclined I am to pass on this one. I haven't gone to look at it yet but can only imagine what a pain it would be to repair if it ever happened while I owned it. The place that has it is asking $2000 for it but I believe it might be wiser to save up more cash and get a newer model with metal framing. Though that means being without a camper for another year and we've been without one now for 2 all ready.

[Padgett]

Just be aware of the problem and look carefully at the ceiling for any sign of leaks. Nothing wrong with wood as long as it stays dry. If in good shape just repaint/recaulk the roof.

Can use as a bargaining point.

All I can say is I sold my '86 Vixen RV for about double what I paid for the TM. Rare and desirable things hold their value

[Subman]

Padgett,
Do I take that to mean at that price it's might be worth looking at?
Mark

[Padgett]

Figuring a real $1200-$1500, then certainly. Take cash and examine carefully including the awning (think Bill provided a checklist). Anything needful (bad battery, empty propare tanks, worn tires, bad carpet, bad converter, water heater, furnace, fridge (3 way)) is a negotiation point.

[B_and_D]

We have a 1997 and it's in great shape. We bought it in 2003 and have taken good care of it. It's fully functional and I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a cross country trip if I had the time. Opens and closes just fine. All appliances work. Nearly new on the inside. We don't plan on getting another RV unless we go full-time.

I'd at least go look at it.

If they're only asking $2000 it may be a junker, or they may not know what they have is worth.

You could ask them to send more pictures.

[Shane826]

If it's a real hike to go check it out, you could do a video chat showing. I did this with a guy in Montana who was selling a 3124KB (I'm in western NY). He fully demo-ed the camper over FaceTime, answered any questions. I was ready to buy it but the distance wound up killing the deal.

[Padgett]

Problem with a video is that it lacks smell which can tell you a lot. OTOH it is convenient.

[Shane826]

You mean to tell me you don't have smell-a-vision?!? You're right. Don't buy it if it stinks. That's just a good bit of life advice.

[Subman]

A dealer about 1 1/2 to 2 hours away has it. When I asked price they said without a trade $2000.00 as is. In the pictures it looks to be in decent shape considering it's 20 years old.

We've camped out of pop ups most of the 24 years my wife and I have been married. Sold our last one, 2009 fleetwood bayside, because loaded it wasn't much fun to tow with my truck. It was right at its max towing capacity. I'd love to have a TM especially if the trailers unloaded weight is truly 2270lbs. The bayside was something like 2700lb not including extras (AC, awning, furnace, etc).

[Padgett]

Well when you look at it the rated weight sticker should be on the back of the door under the sink.

This is the one for my 2720SL. 2619 is about 200 lbs lighter. Spec sheet shows the dry weight of a 2619 as 2673 lbs. Note that the ULV (as built and I suspect with awning, toilet, and AC) is 400 lbs more than the "dry weight" (advertising).

Surprised you have a tow rating of 3300 lbs, are you sure it isn't 3500 (standard class 2 rating). Do you have an 1.25" or a 2" receiver ?

[Subman]

I have a 2001 Ford extra cab, v6, 5 speed manual and 3.55 rear axle. The owners manual shows that combination having a 3300lb max towing capacity. When I bought the truck used in 2002 I didn't even think to check the tow cap. The 2 compact trucks I owned before this had almost the same tow cap and figured a full size Ford had to be better. So much for expecting.

We went to look at the TM today. I have to say they people who traded it got there money's worth out of it, it was well worn. The floor from the door opening to the fridge was spongy which caused worry about other wood. the rest of the camper was in poor shape, dirty and several broken items. We decided to pass on it for now. The most I'd want to give for it is $1000.00, less would be better. They have only had it on there lot a couple of weeks. If it's still there in a couple more I may shoot them a low offer and see what happens.

[Bill]

Subman -

Sad to say, I agree with your decision. Spongy floor = no good. It means water has soaked into the floor and disintegrated the plywood / pressboard subfloor. This is not catastrophic in itself, but it indicates a poor attitude toward maintenance.

Bill

[B_and_D]

That's sad. There will be one out there for you...don't give up!

In 2003 I drove to Idaho to look at a TM that the owner told me was in great shape. It was rode hard, and put down wet. He had macular degeneration and couldn't really see how bad it was, had loaned it to his kids and well, not a go for us.

But we did end up finding a great one because I drove back home through Salem to visit our relatives, and put out the word; my cousin found me a barely used one that we are still enjoying today.

Don't give up!

[Padgett]

That is the best was to find something, particularly something had to find, tell everyone you know and even people you don't that you are looking for one. Put a want ad in CL and the local supermarket. You never know what is going to turn up.

re TV: one not terribly expensive change if a 2WD is the ring and pinion for a lower gear. The only thing difficult about a manual trans and a trailer is getting started. Looks like your trans has a 3.91 1st gear. With a 3.55 and figuring a 31" tire that is almost 7 mph/1000 rpm. A 4.33 would drop that to 5.4 while 70 in 5th would be 3k rpm. If you don't care about above 65, a 4.56 would be 5.6 mph/1000 rpm in 1st. Could also go to a smaller diameter rear tire. Just a thought.

Since the 90s, all of my Tow Vehicles and the RV have had 6 cyk engines. I just like them.

My '6300 lb 86 Vixen RV had a 115hp 2.3 liter Turbo Diesel and a five speed manual. First topped out at 5,000 rpm at 15 mph (in 2nd for speed bumps) while 70 in 5th was about 2500 rpm/5 psi boost. That was ideal gearing with 3 mph at 1000 rpm in first so no need to burn the clutch. Your 4.2 engine has a lot more torque so would probably pull well with a 4.56.

[Subman]

Yes the manual trans is the week link of my TV. Pulling isn't near as bad as backing up either. That truck with everything the same but with an automatic trans is rated I believe at over 5000lb.

[cpiznee]

Subman, I am selling my 2619. It's in the for sale page. I'm not sure where you're located but if you want to check it out let me know.

[Subman]

Thanks for the offer Cpiznee. Your a little to far away though. We are on the east side of missouri.