Using Drill To Level A TM

[Philip]

I have a 2008 2720 TM. I am thinking about leveling the TM using a drill on the leveling jacks.

Does anyone have experience using a drill to level. Does the drill have enough power to lift the trailer enough to level it up? Does anyone use a battery powered drill to level?

I would prefer to use a battery powered drill since I often go where there is no electric and a battery powered drill would be much easier in any event.

Anyones experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Phil

[Bill]

Many of us use an 18-volt drill to lower the jacks to ground level, and to raise them when breaking camp. It is quick and easy. But unless you have a moose of a drill, it won't lift the TM. At least mine won't.

Bill

[mecicon]

Assure that the screws are lubricated, and yes it will run them up/down but doubtful it will have enough torque to lift the trailer.

:cool:

[inghamm]

I have a Craftsman impact wrench like this one:
https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-c3-189-8221-heavy-duty-impact-wrench-kit-powered-by-4ah-xcp

It does lift the trailer for leveling (and makes quite the racket while doing the heavy lifting). My battery is about half the size of the one pictured and I usually don't get 2 lifts without recharging. (So I can go down, then up, then down again, but not enough power to lift it back up)

This is the battery I have:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S047KEC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Larryjb]

So far, I've found it pretty easy to level by using a 1' level to estimate how many 5/8 pieces of plywood I need under a wheel to level side to side. Then I use the tongue jack to level end to end. I've been pretty good about estimating the plywood pieces so far. A 1/8" gap would mean I'd 2 boards under the low side, done just before unhitching the TV.

[BrucePerens]

Ryobi is the only brand I know of that sells a 12V charger for their batteries. This is convenient if you want to charge from the car or solar while boondocking. So I use their drill, vacuum, and air pump.

[handjstar]

Dewalt 18 volt drill does me fine. If your trying to raise trailer you can alway use hand drill. Using scissor jacks too much sort of makes my TM not fit together well so I get wheel and tongue as close to level as possible

[rmHaar]

I get it as close as I can with these
https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chocks/Andersen/AM3604.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKEAjw_6XIBRCisIGIrJeQ93oSJAA2cNtMTs9YxbH5 uTeeYujheGshur2juHxaApwgTSMwU59JohoCrmTw_wcB

And then finish with the drill.

[Shane826]

Like inghamm, I have a similar Craftsman cordless impact wrench (the previous generation). I had the old (not Li-Ion) Battery but it gave up the ghost. Gonna get the new XCP 4Ah battery for it. I welded bolt heads onto the existing jacks and gave away the old L-handle. It makes small work of leveling the TM.

[grubbyjeans]

They aren't really intended as 'leveling' jacks, rather, they stabilize the trailer once it is level.

I level side to side when positioning on the pad using a ramp (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-RV-Tri-Leveler-Yellow/29764486?action=product_interest&action_type=title&beacon_version=1.0.2&bucket_id=irsbucketdefault&client_guid=2ec14c47-6dcd-41a3-8759-e9cce7a8f46c&config_id=72&customer_id_enc&findingMethod=p13n&guid=2ec14c47-6dcd-41a3-8759-e9cce7a8f46c&item_id=29764486&parent_anchor_item_id=16778427&parent_item_id=16778427&placement_id=irs-72-b3&reporter=recommendations&source=new_site&strategy=PWVUB&visitor_id=WtVBVIu11lmjqrmQDFgbhw) on the low side. Large bubble level on the front of the trailer, placed after leveling in my driveway using a 6' level on the frame.

Level end to end when disconnecting with tongue jack.

Stabilize only with screw jacks. I use one of those $19.00 drill/light combos from Harbor Freight. Set the drill clutch to maximum tension and run the screws down until the drill clutch slips. Always do the curbside (entry side) first. If it is just a tad higher than the street side the a/c will drain to the back.

[Larryjb]

They aren't really intended as 'leveling' jacks, rather, they stabilize the trailer once it is level.



I have heard this before, and tend to agree. However, my 2001 TM manual tells me to level with the scissor jacks. For now, I'll continue to use grubbyjeans method.

[BrucePerens]

I replaced my jacks with Husky ones which are each rated to lift 4500 lbs. They are each mounted with a twist away from the front-to-back axis of the trailer, so that none of them are quite parallel with each other and thus they sway less. I store the trailer with the tires an inch or so off of the ground. I have a hypothesis of why RVs get blowouts (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18159) and if it's true, storing the tires in an un-deformed state would help to avoid blowouts.

[Bailey'sMom]

I get it as close as I can with these
https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chocks/Andersen/AM3604.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKEAjw_6XIBRCisIGIrJeQ93oSJAA2cNtMTs9YxbH5 uTeeYujheGshur2juHxaApwgTSMwU59JohoCrmTw_wcB

And then finish with the drill.


I bought this last year after just using the typical boards. This is so much easier, can get almost perfect level. I too installed extra large level on front of trailer that can be seen from rear view mirror.

I also have small levels attached at both kitty corners of the trailer one each sideways and front back at each of these kitty corners. The sites can be quite uneven so they are very necessary, especially if there are potholes, tree roots, or just softer ground on one side vs the other.

[Gwenne & Len]

My only comment on using a drill to level, is that folks that do it before 7 in the morning are pretty inconsiderate......not a pleasant way to wake up in a campground!! We've heard lots of drills on this trip!

[gonzo628]

Hi Bruce,

Are you using jacks located near the tires for support during storage or are you using the stabilizer jacks?

[gonzo628]

love my anderson level. (one of the best purchases for my TM) (that and the power tongue jack).

[BrucePerens]

Hi Bruce,

Are you using jacks located near the tires for support during storage or are you using the stabilizer jacks?

The four stabilizer jacks. I replaced them with Husky 76862 which are each rated for 6500 lbs, more than the full loaded weight of the trailer, and I rotated them off axis so that they don't sway as much.

I don't recommend jacks near the tires, you might hit the axle and damage it.

I think I have a box of tire wedges, but I've never used them.

[Philip]

I get it as close as I can with these
https://www.etrailer.com/Wheel-Chocks/Andersen/AM3604.html?feed=npn&gclid=CjwKEAjw_6XIBRCisIGIrJeQ93oSJAA2cNtMTs9YxbH5 uTeeYujheGshur2juHxaApwgTSMwU59JohoCrmTw_wcB

And then finish with the drill.

Thanks to everyone for your ideas on using a drill to level my TM. I try to share improvements on my TM with everyone and appreciate you all sharing your experience with me on this one.

I think I will use these wheel levelers and do touch up leveling with a drill. I imagine the small amount of drill leveling necessary will not be much of a load on the drill.

Thank to all again.

Phil

[Pele2048]

Ryobi is the only brand I know of that sells a 12V charger for their batteries.

DeWalt 20v lithium:
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCB119-12-Volt-20-Volt-Vehicle/dp/B0052MINWS/

DeWalt 18v NiCD:
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DC9319-18-Volt-Vehicle-Charger/dp/B0017O9JG4

Milwaukee M18:
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2710-20-M18-AC-Charger/dp/B002MUAGM8/

Milwaukee M12:
https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-2510-20-M12-AC-Charger/dp/B002MUAGKK/

[pmhellings]

I always just crank by hand. It's not that hard and it's kind of satisfying. I'm close to 69 so it feels good to do a little something physical now and then. If my trailer is only slightly out of level I feel okay about using the stabilizers to lift it some.

Paul

[grubbyjeans]

I like to have my rig level and stabilized before lifting the shells. That way I know I'm not inducing any frame twist with the jacks which could affect how the shells raise and lower.

[Larryjb]

I like to have my rig level and stabilized before lifting the shells. That way I know I'm not inducing any frame twist with the jacks which could affect how the shells raise and lower.

I agree with this. I noticed that the shells don't come up and lock into place very easily if there is any slope to the trailer. My slide doesn't come out very well either. However, my slide issue may be because of my bent slide bolt too.

[pmhellings]

I like to have my rig level and stabilized before lifting the shells. That way I know I'm not inducing any frame twist with the jacks which could affect how the shells raise and lower.

You're absolutely correct. This is my 3rd (and biggest) camper. The first job for me is always get the camper level before opening it up. My prior campers were a pop up teardrop and a Chalet A-frame.

Paul

[Sopper]

I though the scissor jacks on the corners were 'stabilizing jacks' only. If you want to level side-to-side you put leveling pads/plates under your tires. If you need to level front-to-back you can use your tongue jack to do so. The scissors should only be used to stabilize the camper prior to opening the TM.

[klpauba]

Sopper, that is exactly what I do. I don't like the idea of stressing the frame by using only the stabilizers to level the trailer. My cordless drill batteries last longer this way too.

[BrucePerens]

I routinely lift the entire trailer up on the stabilizers when it's in storage, and I level it exclusively on the stabilizers. See my hypothesis on trailer blow-outs (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18159). The frame is lifted by only two points when the trailer is riding on the axle, and gets a lot of shock while riding, and those two points aren't stronger than where the stabilizers are mounted. I have new Husky stabilizers that are each rated to lift greater than the loaded weight of the trailer, and the weight is distributed over 4 of them. They are mounted non-parallel so that there is less sway of the trailer when it is on the stabilizers.

[ThePair]

When I first got my TM in 2009, I specifically asked the factory about stabilizing vs. lifting. They told me the jacks I have are jacks not stabilizers, and each is good for 3500#, so that they could be used to lift as well as stabilize if needed. They also told me that the likelihood of warping or damaging the frame from slightly incomplete leveling at the 4 corners (lifting, not stabilizing) was so low as to not be worth the discussion. Had something to do with the rigidity of the frame being enough to overcome one mis-set corner. If you think about it, the TM frame would sit on 3 out of 4 corners if you have imperfect placement of the height of the jacks; apparently the frame is plenty strong to withstand that without concerns of bending or warping, as it is overengineered to take potential shocks from driving.

In any event, what I have learned by bending the manual crank trying to raise a jack, is that the screw in the jacks may not always be happy with the stress of raising the TM (at least the ones I have), and as a result I've got one that's harder to raise/lower than the others, likely due to a little alignment/twist issue from stressing it too much. It works, it's just tighter than the others.

So, what I do now is lower the front of the TM below level, lift the front shell then back shell, then lower the back jacks to the ground. I then use the power jack on the tongue to lift the TM to level and drop the front jacks, and then tweak to get it perfect. This puts more pressure on the jacks and removes a little from the tires, which will then allow a more stable environment -- the tires have give and the axle is torsion, so there's less stability than the jacks. I have an add-on stabilizing bar set which really locks the jacks down, and that creates a very stable TM for camping, without needing to use the corner jacks to raise anything.

[Sopper]

I routinely lift the entire trailer up on the stabilizers when it's in storage, and I level it exclusively on the stabilizers. See my hypothesis on trailer blow-outs (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18159). The frame is lifted by only two points when the trailer is riding on the axle, and gets a lot of shock while riding, and those two points aren't stronger than where the stabilizers are mounted. I have new Husky stabilizers that are each rated to lift greater than the loaded weight of the trailer, and the weight is distributed over 4 of them. They are mounted non-parallel so that there is less sway of the trailer when it is on the stabilizers.

I lift the entire camper off the ground for winter storage too. However, I use multiple points and jack stands to do so. The stabilizers, even bigger ones, are designed to stabilize the camper due to shifting weight (people) in the camper. They are not leveling jacks such as used in far larger RVs (hydraulic).

[Bill]

The stabilizers are designed to stabilize the camper due to shifting weight (people) in the camper. They are not leveling jacks such as used in far larger RVs. To the best of my knowledge, the stock jacks on TMs have always been Liftco Le-Sure Lift jacks rated at 5000 pounds each - more than the loaded weight of the trailer.

Bill

[BrucePerens]

This is an area where the "common knowledge" might not apply. There are stabilizers that really are not designed to support the weight of the trailer. But the ones the trailer comes with, and ones conventionally used as replacements, are scissor jacks. I checked mine, and they are each rated for 6500 pounds, around twice the unloaded weight of the trailer, for a sum of 26,000 pounds in total. I am hardly worried that these will have problems under load, and I am also confident in the frame at the mounting points used.

[stormpeakco]

This is an area where the "common knowledge" might not apply. There are stabilizers that really are not designed to support the weight of the trailer. But the ones the trailer comes with, and ones conventionally used as replacements, are scissor jacks. I checked mine, and they are each rated for 6500 pounds, around twice the unloaded weight of the trailer, for a sum of 26,000 pounds in total. I am hardly worried that these will have problems under load, and I am also confident in the frame at the mounting points used.
________________________________________
Thank you for the clarification The Pair, Bill and Bruce.

The jacks have always appeared to be fairly robust and our 18V Makita (two handed as there is considerable torque initiated) has always handled
lifting the corners once the wheels are wooden blocked/rubber chocked with lubricated and recently cleaned threads.

[ka9nyn]

I level w/ an Anderson leveler, then stabilize with the stabilizer jacks. I do use an 18 VDC DeWalt VSR drill. works nicely and doesn't torque the frame of my TM.

[Unstable_Tripod]

I think that the source of the "don't level with stabilizers" idea comes from those of us who previously had canvas popup campers. With those rigs the manuals specifically say that you should NEVER level with the stabilizers. Since I was "indoctrinated" that way I was shocked to read the TrailManor manual and see that they recommended leveling by using the stabilizers.

Even though TM says this is OK I never do it. In part because it makes me nervous and in part because I sometimes have to lift one side a LOT. I lift the low side with a BAL Leveler, chock the other side with two wheel chocks driven in with a hammer and then level front-to-rear with the power tongue jack. I crank the stabs down to the ground and then snug them up with an extra half turn.

I also agree with previous posters that it is best to level and stabilize BEFORE lifting the shells and, when tearing down, to close them before cranking the stabilizers up and "unleveling."

[Bill]

I think that the source of the "don't level with stabilizers" idea comes from those of us who previously had canvas popup campers. With those rigs the manuals specifically say that you should NEVER level with the stabilizers. Since I was "indoctrinated" that way I was shocked to read the TrailManor manual and see that they recommended leveling by using the stabilizers.I believe you are right. The equipment on a small trailer is properly called a stabilizer (not a jack), because that is exactly what it is designed to do. It is a small lightweight piece of metal strip that drops down to the ground and prevents the chassis of the trailer from moving too much. But it isn't a very strong device, and will bend if you try to lift a heavy load.

By contrast, the device on a TM is called a jack (not a stabilizer), specifically because it is designed to lift a heavy load. Each corner jack on a TM is rated to lift more than the entire weight of a loaded TM - and there are four of them. Oh, and by the way, when they are cranked down, they also stabilize the trailer very nicely.

I think this is a nice touch on a TM. I hope the new owners of the TM company don't sacrifice it to save weight and cost

Bill

[Padgett]

Lubing and running the stabilizers up and down is part of my pre-camping checklist. I do use a battery drill/driver (two speed) and a ground lug bolt.

[Shane826]

Also remember the frame on a lot of pop ups are just angle iron. The frame is much more prone to twisting if jacked at the corners. The TrailManor uses a full box frame, it's a lot more rigid.

[inghamm]

Lubing and running the stabilizers up and down is part of my pre-camping checklist. I do use a battery drill/driver (two speed) and a ground lug bolt.

What do lube your stabilizers with?

[Shane826]

I'd like to know what you use to lube the jacks, too. A lot of lubricants will collect dust and road grime, marking them harder to raise and lower.

On another note, I was trying to level my TM with the stabilizer jacks the other day and one of the roll pins broke. When we went to back off the jack, the handle end just unscrewed from the threaded rod. So now tomorrow I have to figure out how to either raise the jack (hoping to drill out what's left of the roll pin and sneak a hitch pin cotter to hold the end on the threaded rod) or jack the front end up with the tongue jack and remove the stabilizer jack. Fun stuff either way.

[Kidkraz]

I have Bal leveler, and they recommend WD-40 can be used to lube the screw assembly.

[Bill]

Shane826 askedI'd like to know what you use to lube the jacks, too. A lot of lubricants will collect dust and road grime, marking them harder to raise and lower.

Years ago, someone on this forum recommended a Teflon-based (not silicone) dry spray lube made by DuPont and available at Lowes. I tried it, liked it, and have used it ever since. The fact that it is dry means it is good for grimy environments like the jackscrew.

More recently I saw an ad for a similar product, supposedly developed by Boeing Aircraft. The ads say that it puts a coat of wax on the lubed surface, which should also pick up less road grime. I have a can of it, but the jury is still out.

Incidentally, when I lube the jackscrew, the first thing I do is hold a wire brush against the threads and spin the screw end to end over the full travel of the jack. As the screw turns, the threads move the brush along the length of the screw, cleaning the crud off as it goes. Then I spray my chosen lube onto the clean threads.

Though I own a can of WD-40, I am not a big fan, so I recommend the teflon stuff. I carry a can of it in my "towing stuff" crate.

Bill

[muz123]

Do you happen to remember the name of the eflon=based stuff?
Thanks,
Dave

[Bill]

DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant

For whatever reason, it is no longer available on the Lowes web site, but I think it is still in the stores. It is also available from a number of other sources, too.

Bill

[rickst29]

What do lube your stabilizers with?
Redline CV-2. (It's intended for auto CV joints; I've got a nearly full jar of leftovers). Probably not worth buying exclusively for TM leveler jacks - but it's more "dry" than normal auto grease, and collects much less road sand.

[grubbyjeans]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Blaster-9-3-oz-Advanced-Dry-Lube-with-Teflon-16-TDL/202532762

[Steppy]

Where do you place your level, on the tongue prior to opening the TM?

[Bill]

For fore-and-aft leveling, I have a 6" magnetic level with a magnetic strip on one edge, which I place on one of the triangle sides of the A-frame. Works well, and is easy to see as I crank the jack up/down.

Bill

[Shane826]

Ok here’s a basic basic question. How do you know how much you need to raise the low side tire to level your camper side to side? Is there some formula based on the level you’re using? For example, how do I determine if I need to raise the low side 2”, 6”, or more? Trial and error sounds like a pain going back & forth on & off a stack of lumber or whatever.

[grubbyjeans]

Ok here’s a basic basic question. How do you know how much you need to raise the low side tire to level your camper side to side? Is there some formula based on the level you’re using? For example, how do I determine if I need to raise the low side 2”, 6”, or more? Trial and error sounds like a pain going back & forth on & off a stack of lumber or whatever.

This is the primary reason that I DON'T use the jacks for leveling. I bought two rv bubble levels, big enough that I can see them from my tv. I placed one of them on the front shell, near center and high enough that I can see it through my rear window. I placed the other on the street side, near the clearance lamp.

I leveled the TM in my driveway using a 6' level on the floor. Once it was level, I attached the bubble levels.

Setup:

Locate my TM on the pad.
Place a leveling ramp behind the tire on the low side. I use the ramp because it is lighter and the easiest to use.
Slowly move the TM until I can see that 'side-to-side' is level. I just roll until I'm level, lock the brake and chock.
Chock the wheels placing one on the opposite side of the ramped wheel.
Disconnect and level front-to-rear using the tongue jack.
Lower the jacks using my battery powered drill, with the clutch at about 3/4 full lockup, until the clutch slips on each jack.


That puts enough tension on the jacks to stabilize the trailer without inducing any twist in the frame and most of the weight remains on the suspension.

[commodor47]

Ok here’s a basic basic question. How do you know how much you need to raise the low side tire to level your camper side to side? Is there some formula based on the level you’re using? For example, how do I determine if I need to raise the low side 2”, 6”, or more? Trial and error sounds like a pain going back & forth on & off a stack of lumber or whatever.

Shane,

I have been using the Hopkins (Hoppy) Level 09715 since 2007 (https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-Towing-Solutions-9715-09715/dp/B000FGM3MW) It is easily calibrated using the access hole in the clear cover. Find a level spot, open the trailer and use a carpenters level on the floor. Check for level side-to-side and front-to-back then calibrate the Hoppy level. Instructions for calibrating the level should be included with the device. Once set up the level will indicate in inches how much the curb or street side is out of level by rotating the dial.

Dick

[Shane826]

grubbyjeans- Any pics of what you use for a ramp? My 3326 has two axles so I think I need to support both wheels...

commodor47- That device is pretty slick. So you rotate the dial and it tells you how far off level you are?

[commodor47]

Shane,

That is correct. The dial is graduated in 1 inch increments for both the curb and street side. Another good feature - should anything change it can be easily re-calibrated. I use the orange leveling blocks and 1 inch on the Hoppy level is equal to one orange block.

Dick

[grubbyjeans]

grubbyjeans- Any pics of what you use for a ramp? My 3326 has two axles so I think I need to support both wheels...

commodor47- That device is pretty slick. So you rotate the dial and it tells you how far off level you are?


Here ya go

Ramp: Walmart # 551832234 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-RV-Tri-Leveler-Yellow/29764486)

Chock: Walmart # 001050533 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-Wheel-Chock/14504361?athcpid=14504361&athpgid=athenaItemPage&athcgid=null&athznid=PWVUB&athieid=v0&athstid=CS002&athguid=466001f5-228d1fb0-fc6933836caedaaa&athena=true)

[beaujones]

Hi I use this for mine and it will level it for you: http://a.co/74DVTSV