Considering New Converter & Lithium Battery

[FlyboyTR]

I have spent several hours reading about lithium stuff both here and over on the Facebook page. Lots of good info from our amazing members.

Rick had posted about using a particular converter, WFCO WF-8955-AD-MBA Main Board Assembly for WF-8900-AD Series Power Center - 55 Amp. That is currently at a great price on Amazon.
https://amzn.to/41flCfQ

I also noted there is another converter that reads almost exactly as the afore mentioned one...just more money: WFCO WF-8955LIS-MBA Main Board Assembly for WF-8900LiS Series Power Center - 55 Amp
https://amzn.to/3lUpZwj

Can anyone explain what the difference is? My plan is to buy the one that Rick S. mentioned in one of his posts. But for me....I get a bit lost in the lithium world. So, looking for some guidance.

I plan to use a single 100 amp lithium battery that I will move to the inside of my 2010 3023 (because of cold weather camping). It will mount forward of the 40 gallon water tank. Currently I have a lead acid 100 amp battery up front and it is working fine...but the lithium bug has bitten me and I am needing a simple and straightforward cure! Thanks!

Travis

[Shane826]

It seems backwards but it looks like the cheaper one auto detects between lithium or lead-acid batteries whereas the more expensive one is switched manually between the two battery types.

[FlyboyTR]

It seems backwards but it looks like the cheaper one auto detects between lithium or lead-acid batteries whereas the more expensive one is switched manually between the two battery types.

The lesser expensive one, auto detect, also has a newer release date by a few months. It is odd. Thanks!

Travis

[FlyboyTR]

OK...I have made the decision to purchase the auto switchover model converter.

https://amzn.to/41flCfQ

Now comes the search for the battery. For the rest of this year it will living in the truck toolbox I mounted on the front/tongue of the TM. I do have concerns about below freezing temperatures situations for the next couple of months. We typically will boondock 1-3 days and then 1-2 days with hookups. Should I find it is below freezing, I will just turn the battery switch and separate the battery until things warm up, then reengage the battery so it can go back to charging.

My concern is towing the camper without using a dc to dc converter to step up the voltage. How big of an issue is it to NOT have one and just leave it like it is now. I know it won't get a full charge...I just don't want to have a wiring/alternator problem with the truck! Input on that would be appreciated.

There seems to be a lot of 100 amp Lifepo4 batteries around now in the $300 market. That is the direction I want to go...for now! There are just so many choices and for the uneducated...it is tough!

Your comments and guidance would be appreciated! Thanks.

[lcastell]

I am looking at doing the same thing and called the factory yesterday. They were recommending the less expensive model as our 2017 2720 SD has the WFCO WF-8955PEC and it's a direct swap out. It also automatically detects whether or not it's charging a Lithium or Lead Acid battery. Very convenient.

Finally, for choosing the battery to purchase, this forum may be of help, https://diysolarforum.com/ and the guy who runs it, Will Prowse, has battery recommendations and interesting videos showing battery teardowns, https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/.

[FlyboyTR]

I am looking at doing the same thing and called the factory yesterday. They were recommending the less expensive model as our 2017 2720 SD has the WFCO WF-8955PEC and it's a direct swap out. It also automatically detects whether or not it's charging a Lithium or Lead Acid battery. Very convenient.

Finally, for choosing the battery to purchase, this forum may be of help, https://diysolarforum.com/ and the guy who runs it, Will Prowse, has battery recommendations and interesting videos showing battery teardowns, https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/.

At the recommendation of both Wavery and Rickst29, I made the decision to purchase the Progressive Dynamics unit. They both agreed that it was far superior to the WFCO unit I was originally intent on buying. It is "almost" a direct replacement, but the base of the power panel has to be cut out, easy to do, because this unit is about 1/4" taller than the OEM.
https://www.bestconverter.com/PD-4655VL-55-Amp-Converter-Upgrade-Optional-Remote-Pendant-_p_676.html

I also decided on the CHINS Smart 100 amp battery. Since we boondock frequently is cold temps and my battery is on the tongue, having the built in heater and bluetooth will be a plus. This is the battery.
https://amzn.to/3m6xRLe

We had a lengthy and informative discussion over on the Facebook page. Good stuff!

[jagizzi]

The Best Converter folks are the best! They know what they sell, and demonstrated that on a couple of occasions when I called them with questions. Good choice, and the PD equipment is made in America, which, to me, is preferable to made in China. Although Chinese quality is improving customer service can be a bit thin.

I went with the PD4645VL but have chosen not to use the Lithium charging mode. I prefer to use the Boost Mode of 14.4V because it only stays in that mode for 4 hours and then reverts to 13.6, which is perfect float for Lithium. I didn't want the 14.6V Lithium charge mode to always be hitting the battery BMS with the 14.6V .

An added benefit for my situation is that the charger is also appropriate for my Lead Acid batteries on the tongue. I can switch the charger output to either the Lithium batteries or the Lead Acid and then manually choose the mode (Boost or Normal) that suits the batteries.

[Bill]

I'm confused about the battery's internal heating function. The text on the Amazon site says a number of things that make me pause.

Since we boondock frequently [in] cold temps and my battery is on the tongue, having the built in heater ... will be a plus.It appears that the heating function cannot be used unless the battery is being charged. That isn't much help if you are boondocking without hookups, or at night if you use solar panels for charging.

Amazon also says that when the heater is on, the heating current is "at least 10 amps", meaning at least 140 watts. That is a pretty healthy whack, even in the daytime with a solar system.

When the ambient temperature is lower than 32°F, the charging current will only supply power to the heating film inside the battery. This is kind of an ambiguous (poorly-phrased?) statement that may say that when the heater is on, you cannot get power for any loads other than the heater.

Help me out here - I'm really trying to understand it. For someone who boondocks frequently in cold weather, why is this battery a better choice than a traditional Group 27 lead-acid battery of nearly the same capacity? Yes, I get that it may last twice as long - but it is also twice the price.

Bill

[FlyboyTR]

I'm confused about the battery's internal heating function. The text on the Amazon site says a number of things that make me pause.

It appears that the heating function cannot be used unless the battery is being charged. That isn't much help if you are boondocking, or at night if you have solar system.

Amazon also says that when the heater is on, the heating current is "at least 10 amps", meaning at least 140 watts. That is a pretty healthy whack, even in the daytime with a solar system.

This is kind of an ambiguous (poorly-phrased?) statement that may say that when the heater is on, you cannot get power for any loads other than the heater.

Help me out here - I'm really trying to understand it. For someone who boondocks frequently in cold weather, why is this battery a better choice than a traditional Group 27 lead-acid battery of nearly the same capacity? Yes, I get that it may last twice as long - but it is also twice the price.

Bill

Bill,
I had the same concerns. I contacted CHINS and this is the general explanation from the message I received back from them:

"If the battery is below 32 degrees the BMS will not allow the battery to charge. The BMS uses the input current from the converter to power the heater (the battery cells do not operate the heaters). Once the core is above 50 degrees, heaters go off and power is then routed to the cells for charging. Regardless of the core temp, the battery will still continue to provide usable power the same as it would if above 32 degrees."

So, the battery works (provides power) regardless of the core temp. The heaters will only turn on if charging power is available and the temp is below 32. The heaters will not come on unless the converter/charger is providing current.

Hope that helps to clear that up. In the beginning, all of that was making my head spin. I feel much better about it now. Thanks for asking!

Travis

[lcastell]

So, if you want to read about batteries, here's two in-depth articles, albeit from the Marine side of things:
* Deep Cycle batteries: https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
* Lithium batteries: https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/

There's lots of good info in here.

[FlyboyTR]

So, if you want to read about batteries, here's two in-depth articles, albeit from the Marine side of things:
* Deep Cycle batteries: https://marinehowto.com/what-is-a-deep-cycle-battery/
* Lithium batteries: https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/

There's lots of good info in here.

Enjoyed the read. Thanks!

Travis

[lcastell]

I'm glad you enjoyed the read.

This is a fun field to be learning more about .

[LoveToCamp]

Bill, your question re:LA vs LiFePo was one I pondered for about a year. I had 2 6v golf cart batteries (210ah ea), and 540w of solar. Didn't see how Lithiums would benefit me.

But, I finally got 2 Lithiums, each 200 ah. With LA, you can use about half the rated ah, so I had 100ah of power available to me (2 6v in series still only yield 12v of the rated ah of one). With two 200ah lithium 12v batteries, I have almost 400ah of power available to me. While I could buy more golf cart batteries over the years and still be spending less than Lithiums, I would not have the extra power available for those consecutive cloudy/stormy days. Lithiums charge faster, I am told. So a weak solar input could benefit the Lithiums more than LA batteries.

Regarding the heated batteries, I did go with heated Lithiums. Most Lithiums are mounted inside a trailer, as it is harder to steal them when inside, vs on the tongue. So, in the winter, I can plug into shore power before a trip, get the batteries up to 50 degrees, and get them charged before I leave. I can also run the furnace to further warm the area where the batteries are (or put an incandescent bulb in there to warm the compartment). Once I am camping, the trailer stays over 50 degrees, so there is no problem with charging. My solar recharges the Lithiums all day, and my furnace can run as much as the wife wants it to.