Dexter Axle Issue

[Civil_War_Buff]

Hi All,


(This is a reprint of the post that I placed on the Yahoo Forum).

I was (and am) having a problem with my tires wearing on the inside
edges so I took it to a local specialty shop to have the trailer
alignment checked and corrected. The shop informed me that not only
could they not align the trailer, they couldn't even check the
alignment due to the axle being a "torsion" style. I contacted
TrailManor and Ed told me that the factory buys the axles from Dexter
and installs them complete, therefore the warranty is totally on
Dexter, which I fully understand. I have been trying for 4 days to
get a solution (or even an acknowledgement) from Dexter, and they seem
to be ignoring me.

Has anyone else had their Dexter axle aligned? If so, where did you
go? Has anyone had any success dealing with Dexter? If I don't hear
anything from them soon, I will send a letter off to RV Action Line at
Trailer Life, and Highways magazines to see if they can get me any
help. But I was wondering if I am alone in this?????

Larry

[commodor47]

Hi Larry,

I haven't had a similar issue with the tires on our unit. But a couple
of possible sources of the uneven wear come to mind. Could the inside
tire wear be related to the inner or outer wheel bearings? Or the
wheel bearing races? Perhaps the wheel bearings are not the correct
size? Could the wheel bearings be too loose?

(I also posted this reply on the Yahoo Forum)

[wmtire]

Hmm Larry, If both tires are wearing on the inside only, it sounds like (in vehicle terms) what's called camber. There really shouldn't be a toe in/toe out problem with a trailer axle.

The axle itself, could possibly be slightly misaligned (the left and right hand sides not bolted equal on the frame), but this should result in one tire wearing on the inside, while the other wore on the outside.

Just guessing on possible causes of camber misalignment (which is where the top of the tire/wheel and bottom of the tire/wheel are not straight perpendicular) for a trailer axle, would be loose bearings....or a bent axle on each end.

We encounter this latter problem on our tire transport trailers, that we always are overloading. :)
The axle will bend/warp up from the point where it is bolted to the springs and outward. Once it does this, each end isn't straight with the axle anymore, and the camber is out. Ours will get so bad that the top of the tire will actually start rubbing the inside of the fender welds. It is at this point, that we replace the axle.:new_cussi

I wouldn't think your axle should be bent, but it might be something to look at, while you're waiting for Dexter to reply.

Edit: I found the following on the FAQ section of Dexter's website. It is just some good info that everyone might need to know in case they have a flat tire. Dexter doesn't recommend jacking up the trailer under their axle. Dexter also states in this FAQ, what possibly may be wrong with Larry's trailer

MISCELLANEOUS - Is it okay to jack up my trailer?
Dexter recommends that you do not jack up the trailer on the suspension components because there is always the potential for damage. Bent hangers, leaf springs, or axle tubes can cause bad axle alignment with bad tire wear resulting. Also, many trailer builders do not use Dexter hangers and we have no idea how strong these hangers may or may not be. Therefore, we take the conservative approach and recommend jacking up only on the trailer frame.
Back to Top

http://www.dexteraxle.com/faq_s

[Virginia Deacon]

Thanks, wmtire, for the information from Dexter.

As you can see in my signature, our TrailManor is nearly new, and I haven't had to jack it up yet. BUT, if I had, I would have forgotten that the axle is a torsion axle and would have jacked the TrailManor using the axle. Now that I know better, I will use the frame instead.

Many times, the information on this forum has been worth MUCH more than the cost of admission!

Happy Camping!

[Freedom]

I for one have never been too impressed with torsion-type axles. The 'torsion' part depends on the rubber mounting and IMHO is a very poor setup. I have built some trailers and worked in a trailer shop for a number of years, and as wmtire says- "there's not much you can do for a torsion axle that's wearing out tires" - there are no adjustments and really no way to repair them. I have the same problem except only on one tire. I have been thinking of putting a "real" axle and springs on our trailer, but haven't gotten around to checking on the cost. I can build the axle, and we have a local spring manufacturer that does custom work. It would also eliminate the lift kit that I've been thinking of putting on. I think I'll look into this some time this summer.

[retiredgoat]

Here's a thread that seams close to your problem, maybe it will help
http://escapees.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/372602561/m/5151011352

It's all about alignment using big rig shops (18 wheelers).

Hope it helps.

[Civil_War_Buff]

Here's a thread that seams close to your problem, maybe it will help
http://escapees.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/372602561/m/5151011352

It's all about alignment using big rig shops (18 wheelers).

Hope it helps.


Thanks, but the "specialty" shop that I used was a big rig shop. The operator said that there is no way for them to "bend" torsion type axles.

The wife is now talking about replacing theTrailManor with "another brand"..... I sure hope that I can get this fixed before it's too late.....

Larry

[Bill]

Larry -

I'm surprised that Dexter has been so unresponsive. One of their Application Engineers (Christine) has been quite responsive in the past, though not always instantly. She may be researching the question before getting back to you. You might phone them and ask to speak to her directly.

Bill

[Civil_War_Buff]

Larry -

I'm surprised that Dexter has been so unresponsive. One of their Application Engineers (Christine) has been quite responsive in the past, though not always instantly. She may be researching the question before getting back to you. You might phone them and ask to speak to her directly.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I did hear from Dexter this morning, here is their response....

"...Thank you for contacting Dexter Axle with your questions and concerns, I hope I may be of some assistance. It is not unusual for a trailer axle to need the occasional alignment. Road conditions and towing loads can cause axles to become slightly out of alignment. It is possible to have a torsion axle aligned and they do have to be "Cold Bent" due to the axles internal rubber. This may not be an operation that a typical car alignment shop can handle. In our area we have a few trailer axle alignment locations, they specialize in trailer and heavy vehicle alignment. We also find that shops that maintain semi or heavy equipment are capable of "Cold Bending" torsion axles into proper alignment. Dexter's warranty does not cover axle alignment, as we have no control over how trailers are loaded or pulled. However, if a customer is totally unable to find a location to align the axles on their trailer Dexter may assist the customer by offering a reduced price on an axle beam. An axle beam would consist of the torsion axle with spindles and mounting brackets. Brakes, drums and other hardware would have to be reused from existing axle. If you would be interested in purchasing a new beam I would need to get the axle serial number from your old axle...."

Considering that I went to the only heavy duty equipment shop in the San Jose area that can alighn big rigs, it looks like I am on my own. I think that TrailManor welds the axles to the frame, so ordering an axle beam would be a lesson in futility.

Now I must decide what to do......

[mjlaupp]

Two thoughts here:

1) I don't think that TM started welding axles on until at least the 2004/05 model year.

2) Any alignment shop that can repair and align a Ford Twin I Beam suspension should have the necessary equipment. This suspension realignment sometimes requires cold bending.

Mike

[mtnguy]

Two thoughts here:

1) I don't think that TM started welding axles on until at least the 2004/05 model year.

2) Any alignment shop that can repair and align a Ford Twin I Beam suspension should have the necessary equipment. This suspension realignment sometimes requires cold bending.

Mike

I agree with both statements. I just installed a lift kit on my 2003 TM 2720, and mine was just bolted on.....that made things much simpler.

I had a 79 Ford 150 (purchased new, and just sold it), and I had to have the front end aligned because the Twin I Beams never "settled in" to the proper camber. They had to bend the I beams.

Check with Ford dealers.

mtnguy

[Civil_War_Buff]

Two thoughts here:

1) I don't think that TM started welding axles on until at least the 2004/05 model year.

2) Any alignment shop that can repair and align a Ford Twin I Beam suspension should have the necessary equipment. This suspension realignment sometimes requires cold bending.

Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks, you have given me a ray of hope.......if TM didn't start welding the axles until later, I might be able to replace the beam. I was surprised thet company that told me they couldn't align the axle does work on big rigs, etc. and I woul think that they could "cold bend" if needed...I am trying to check back with them, to see if they do, or if they know of a shop that does...... what a hassle this has become...

[Civil_War_Buff]

I agree with both statements. I just installed a lift kit on my 2003 TM 2720, and mine was just bolted on.....that made things much simpler.

mtnguy

That is quite interesting, when people put lift kits on their TM they unbolt the axle from the trailer correct? If so, how do you ensure that the trailer axle is aligned properly after doing so? I am curious.......

[mtnguy]

That is quite interesting, when people put lift kits on their TM they unbolt the axle from the trailer correct? If so, how do you ensure that the trailer axle is aligned properly after doing so? I am curious.......

That was big concern of mine also. I figured even a 1/8th inch or so of misalignment might cause the TM to track bad. When I was tightening the bolts back, I did so gradually, alternating sides, and moving the axle some so that it would "find" something close to its orginal position. The tolerances are close between the frame holes, the bolt size, and the lift kit holes. I then took the TM out for test run, sighted down the side of the TM and compared it with the lines on the road through the mirrors. I also sighted down the middle roof seam through my inside mirror. It seemed to tracking true. I then retorqued the bolts 1 final time, and everything seems to be OK. Tire wear over time will tell the tale if something is off.

I did notice that the tires are about 1/4" closer to 1 side of the fender skirts than the other, but didn't check out the original measurements, so I have nothing to campare to. Also, my fender skirts are bowed somewhat, so that could be a little of the problem.

mtnguy

[Joseph]

Before I installed my lift kit I scribed marks on the frame and the axle mounting hardware in such a way that I could verify alignment after the kit was installed with a straight edge. I installed one side at time so as to never "loose" the original placement. Afterwards I read something on the web about measuring the distance from each side of the axle ( pick a point, maybe one could use the grease nipple ) to a common point on the front of the trailer. Somewhere near the hitch. I did not do this so I have not looked for a good " center " part of the frame or hitch near the front. But at any rate these lines would form a triangle. The axle being the base line. As long as the sides of the triangle are the same length you should be good to go I would think.

[Freedom]

When I worked at a trailer shop that is exactly how we aligned the axles on semi-trailers. We had a ring that attached to the "King" pin and we had a tape attached to the ring and measured to a specific point on the axle or axles. It's even more important to have the alignment right when you have tandem axles, because if it's off the tires will wear very rapidly. Toe in and out are also very important and I think a lot of the problem with Dexter axles is more toe than camber. If your tires are toed out, it will wear the inside of both tires, and if toed in it will wear the outside of both tires.

[mtnguy]

A lot of good information about the lift kit installation here......I couldn't find out much when I did a thread before I added the lift kit.

Scribing marks sounds like a great idea.....and needless to say I didn't do that. And even though my TM tracks good after the installation, I will do the triagulation measurements on my axle for additional piece of mind.

In a previous post to this thread, I stated that I thought my axle might be off about 1/4 inch side to side, measured to the fender skirt (but my fender skirts are bowed some). I used a straight edge across the tire, and measured to the frame today.....and it was exactly the same......whew!!!

And on those bowed fender skirts.....I am going to run a piece of aluminum across the back to straighten them out.....ought to cause a better seal with the shell gasket doing that, and a little more tire clearance room.

mtnguy

[moodyja]

Freedom,
Just for my education what is the "King" pin?

[Freedom]

The "King" pin is the big "pin" on the semi-trailer that hooks into the 5th wheel on the truck tractor.

[Civil_War_Buff]

I decided to take a look at the wheel bearings to see if they were OK, and it has been a year since I repacked them. Anyhow, I used the approved process of pre-loading by tightening the nut to 50 ft-lbs and then backed the nut off and hand tightened. My question for this forum is, when I finger tightened the nut the locking tab fell perfectly at a nut slot, so I locked it down there however ther is no "slop" in the nut in that I cannot move the nut back and forth, yet the wheel spins freely. Is this OK? Or should I loosen the nut to give the spindle some end play? I am preparing to hit the road on Friday, so a quick response would be appreciated.

[Joe]

If it were mine I would leave it just like you have it.
BTW; I've meant to ask you if you have had your trailer weighed to see if the axle might be overloaded.

[wmtire]

Toe in and out are also very important and I think a lot of the problem with Dexter axles is more toe than camber.

That is an excellent point that Freedom makes. I thought I would share the following just FYI purposes, whether it be a trailer or vehicle alignment. Usually with incorrect toe, your tire will also develop (in tire terms) what is called feathering, along with abnormal tire wear on the inside or outside of the tread.

It is called feathering, because you can picture the way a birds feather lie. You can feel across the tire with your hand, and see if the tread has developed a pattern that feels like the pic below that I found on the internet. This is caused by the tire not rolling straight, but being dragged a little sideways down the road. That's why you will get feathering across all the treads. You can also tell which way the toe is incorrect, by the way the feathers point.

If your tire has abnormal side wear, and feathering, then it will be a toe problem.

http://www.tireguides.com/images/tipscharts/feathering.jpg

If it has abnormal side wear, but that's all, then it's most likely going to be a camber problem.

[Civil_War_Buff]

That is an excellent point that Freedom makes. I thought I would share the following just FYI purposes, whether it be a trailer or vehicle alignment. Usually with incorrect toe, your tire will also develop (in tire terms) what is called feathering, along with abnormal tire wear on the inside or outside of the tread.

It is called feathering, because you can picture the way a birds feather lie. You can feel across the tire with your hand, and see if the tread has developed a pattern that feels like the pic below that I found on the internet. This is caused by the tire not rolling straight, but being dragged a little sideways down the road. That's why you will get feathering across all the treads. You can also tell which way the toe is incorrect, by the way the feathers point.

If your tire has abnormal side wear, and feathering, then it will be a toe problem.

http://www.tireguides.com/images/tipscharts/feathering.jpg

If it has abnormal side wear, but that's all, then it's most likely going to be a camber problem.


Thanks for the picture Bobby, and yes, I have feathering of the inside edge and the tire is almost worn to the cord on that tire.

Joe, I have NOT had the trailer weighed, but I am pretty certain that I am NOT overloaded.

Larry