TrailManor Owner's Forum - View Single Post

cochise · 03-09-2010, 07:13 PM

I did not mean to sound grumpy....or did I? In any case to clarify the furnace issue Bill Moderator, here is a copy of my letter to SUBURBAN (furnace):

February 20, 2010

Louie Richard
Assistant Service Manager
Airxel, Suburban Products

Dear Mr. Richard,

I am turning to you as my last resort in resolving problems with the installation of a Suburban NT-20S furnace in a brand new (purchased 9/22/2009) TrailManor Elkmont 24 Travel Trailer.

The trailer was purchased in Texas and we towed it back to Arizona.

Almost home, we spent the night in New Mexico and it was cold so we tried to fire up the furnace. The very first time we tried to turn on the heat in the trailer, the furnace started up but there was no hot air, and after a while it shut off.

Once back home I tried to find out why it would not give off heat. I had not been supplied with a manual, so we had to guess our way around. I soon found the reason for no heat: The furnace duct work was not there, it had never been hooked up. Over several months we tried to get this resolved. The dealer in Texas told us it was a small matter, and that it could be fixed in a matter of minutes. We ended up taking it to a dealer in Tucson, Freedom RV. They in turn contacted TrailManor and were told to get the problem fixed. It took them 6 hours to get it done as they had to turn the water tank 90° to accommodate a duct to the sleeping area.

Recently I was advised by Freedom RV that they had been asked by TrailManor to “undo” the job as they did not think it necessary, and would not pay for it. Several times I had asked both the dealer and TrailManor to supply me with a user manual, but I never got one. I finally found the Suburban Customer Service and was emailed a manual, based on the information in a Data Card that TM had enclosed in an information package. As it turned out it was not correct. When I spoke to you on 2/12/2010, you informed me, based on the ser. Number on the unit, that it was a different model I had, and you kindly emailed me both the installation and owner manual. From that I learned that the furnace could not have been installed correctly by TM.

Next I contacted TM’s cust. Serv, one Ed Lytle, who than emailed me the enclosed email, stating that the furnace had been installed in accordance with guide lines from Suburban, and that the return air set-up had been approved by a “representative from Suburban”, and that: “All our appliance installations are approved by the manufacturer”. (Please see the attached email from TM). I find all of their explanations very hard to believe.

Fact:
The furnace is installed perpendicular to the left side of the trailer. It is skewed about 20° to 25° to the furnace centerline, with less than marginal clearance at the front.

There is NO any way to access the furnace for maintenance, except to completely dismantle it and remove for routine maintenance.

It is NOT screwed to the floor as outlined in the installation manual. The only things holding it in place are the LP gas line and the combustion and exhaust tubes at the rear of the furnace thru the outside wall.

The return air opening consists of a ½” by 53” gap between the seat frame and the seat front. (It is likely that before the seat and the front was padded with foam and fabric there MIGHT have been a ¾” to 1” clearance. However that is not there now). And when one or two persons sit on this seat it is further depressed, decreasing the gap further. In addition to the gap there is also a 4” vent giving an additional 12 sq. Inch opening for a total of 38.5 Square inch area of return air space.

It is sitting on top of a bunch of wires.

The exhaust and supply tubes from the outside for the furnace is only 1/8” from the Styrofoam wafer between the outer and inner skin of the side wall of the trailer.

TrailManor passes the blame for the poor installation (with code violations) to Suburban by claiming that the installation was done pursuant to installation instructions by Suburban, and thus creates a potential for liability for Suburban for any mishaps in the future.

My wife and I fear using the trailer as is, because we feel that it has serious safety flaws and that we cannot reasonably maintain the furnace as prescribed in the user’s manual due to the flawed installation.

I find it hard to believe that Suburban issues strict installation instructions that MUST BE FOLLOWED by some and can be disregarded by others. Especially when one reads the following:

WARNING: Installation of this appliance must be made in accordance with the written instructions provided in this manual. No agent, representative or employee of Suburban or other person has the authority to change, modify or waive any provision of the instructions contained in this manual.

This warning seems to be contradicted in the email from Mr. Ed Lytle at TrailManor.

I have enclosed the emails to/from TrailManor and photos I have taken of the installation.

Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated thank you.

Sincerely,

name withheld.

It should also be noted that this is an issue that has been going on since September 2009, and still is far from resolved. TM keeps saying that they have gotten the OK from SUBURBAN, and they say that if ANYONE at SUBURBAN had OK'ed that, they would still be looking for work, because they would have been fired. Every time we have approached TM with questions about this and other issues, Mr. Michael Hulsey has a new answer, (not always the same for the same question). I think I stated earlier that there has been a "management" change at TM due to illness or poor health, and THAT may be the explanation as to why these problems are still around.

Suburban has told me that the installation in my trailer ($ 25000.00 + cash) is downright INSANE, those were the words used. And we were told: DO NOT USE THAT FURNACE UNTIL IT HAS BEEN INSTALLED CORRECTLY!

Happy camping to all of you.

03-09-2010, 07:13 PM	#42
cochise Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 160	I am sorry... I did not mean to sound grumpy....or did I? In any case to clarify the furnace issue Bill Moderator, here is a copy of my letter to SUBURBAN (furnace): February 20, 2010 Louie Richard Assistant Service Manager Airxel, Suburban Products Dear Mr. Richard, I am turning to you as my last resort in resolving problems with the installation of a Suburban NT-20S furnace in a brand new (purchased 9/22/2009) TrailManor Elkmont 24 Travel Trailer. The trailer was purchased in Texas and we towed it back to Arizona. Almost home, we spent the night in New Mexico and it was cold so we tried to fire up the furnace. The very first time we tried to turn on the heat in the trailer, the furnace started up but there was no hot air, and after a while it shut off. Once back home I tried to find out why it would not give off heat. I had not been supplied with a manual, so we had to guess our way around. I soon found the reason for no heat: The furnace duct work was not there, it had never been hooked up. Over several months we tried to get this resolved. The dealer in Texas told us it was a small matter, and that it could be fixed in a matter of minutes. We ended up taking it to a dealer in Tucson, Freedom RV. They in turn contacted TrailManor and were told to get the problem fixed. It took them 6 hours to get it done as they had to turn the water tank 90° to accommodate a duct to the sleeping area. Recently I was advised by Freedom RV that they had been asked by TrailManor to “undo” the job as they did not think it necessary, and would not pay for it. Several times I had asked both the dealer and TrailManor to supply me with a user manual, but I never got one. I finally found the Suburban Customer Service and was emailed a manual, based on the information in a Data Card that TM had enclosed in an information package. As it turned out it was not correct. When I spoke to you on 2/12/2010, you informed me, based on the ser. Number on the unit, that it was a different model I had, and you kindly emailed me both the installation and owner manual. From that I learned that the furnace could not have been installed correctly by TM. Next I contacted TM’s cust. Serv, one Ed Lytle, who than emailed me the enclosed email, stating that the furnace had been installed in accordance with guide lines from Suburban, and that the return air set-up had been approved by a “representative from Suburban”, and that: “All our appliance installations are approved by the manufacturer”. (Please see the attached email from TM). I find all of their explanations very hard to believe. Fact: The furnace is installed perpendicular to the left side of the trailer. It is skewed about 20° to 25° to the furnace centerline, with less than marginal clearance at the front. There is NO any way to access the furnace for maintenance, except to completely dismantle it and remove for routine maintenance. It is NOT screwed to the floor as outlined in the installation manual. The only things holding it in place are the LP gas line and the combustion and exhaust tubes at the rear of the furnace thru the outside wall. The return air opening consists of a ½” by 53” gap between the seat frame and the seat front. (It is likely that before the seat and the front was padded with foam and fabric there MIGHT have been a ¾” to 1” clearance. However that is not there now). And when one or two persons sit on this seat it is further depressed, decreasing the gap further. In addition to the gap there is also a 4” vent giving an additional 12 sq. Inch opening for a total of 38.5 Square inch area of return air space. It is sitting on top of a bunch of wires. The exhaust and supply tubes from the outside for the furnace is only 1/8” from the Styrofoam wafer between the outer and inner skin of the side wall of the trailer. TrailManor passes the blame for the poor installation (with code violations) to Suburban by claiming that the installation was done pursuant to installation instructions by Suburban, and thus creates a potential for liability for Suburban for any mishaps in the future. My wife and I fear using the trailer as is, because we feel that it has serious safety flaws and that we cannot reasonably maintain the furnace as prescribed in the user’s manual due to the flawed installation. I find it hard to believe that Suburban issues strict installation instructions that MUST BE FOLLOWED by some and can be disregarded by others. Especially when one reads the following: WARNING: Installation of this appliance must be made in accordance with the written instructions provided in this manual. No agent, representative or employee of Suburban or other person has the authority to change, modify or waive any provision of the instructions contained in this manual. This warning seems to be contradicted in the email from Mr. Ed Lytle at TrailManor. I have enclosed the emails to/from TrailManor and photos I have taken of the installation. Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated thank you. Sincerely, name withheld. It should also be noted that this is an issue that has been going on since September 2009, and still is far from resolved. TM keeps saying that they have gotten the OK from SUBURBAN, and they say that if ANYONE at SUBURBAN had OK'ed that, they would still be looking for work, because they would have been fired. Every time we have approached TM with questions about this and other issues, Mr. Michael Hulsey has a new answer, (not always the same for the same question). I think I stated earlier that there has been a "management" change at TM due to illness or poor health, and THAT may be the explanation as to why these problems are still around. Suburban has told me that the installation in my trailer ($ 25000.00 + cash) is downright INSANE, those were the words used. And we were told: DO NOT USE THAT FURNACE UNTIL IT HAS BEEN INSTALLED CORRECTLY! Happy camping to all of you.