TrailManor Owner's Forum  

Go Back   TrailManor Owner's Forum > TrailManor Owners Community > General TrailManor Topics
Register FAQ Members List Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-02-2003, 09:57 AM   #11
Civil_War_Buff
Site Sponsor
 
Civil_War_Buff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 525
Default Re: Brake Controllers

Quote:
I've got a question. If you are replacing a Tekonsha inertial controller, wouldn't it be a simple matter to remove the old controller and hook up the Prodigy to the wires already installed. Does it require running new wires to the connector ?
cardsfan39,

The wiring is different between the 2, so it is important to follow the installation instructions carefully.  In a perfect world, you could do that, but we must make some minor adjustments. ;D

The installation is still pretty straight forward though.

Larry

Civil_War_Buff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2003, 02:46 PM   #12
flyday
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Controllers

Thanks for all the input. Everyone I've talked to (excluding Draw-Tite and Hayes/Hoppy dealers) really touts the benefits of the Prodigy or Jordan units. After all, you spend that much on a "pop-up" :P but then skimp on stuff that protects your investment...not too smart, eh? Thanks again, all. 8)

Dick
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 03:24 AM   #13
BobWilson
Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 130
Default Re: Brake Controllers

Since the Prodigy has gotten such high recommendations I told my dealer to order one for me so it will be ready to install when I receive my TM, hopefully next week.

I am considering also using a manual trailer mover so I can move my trailer around without the tow vehicle when needed or for more precise parking.  I am considering either the AGS manual mover with the ratchet manual lever or an electric one like Powermover.  Now what if I want to active the brakes while I'm am manually moving the TM.  Can I use the Prodigy without the tow vehicle?

Thanks for all the advice.
BobWilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2003, 02:57 PM   #14
RockyMtnRay
TrailManor Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 816
Default Re: Brake Controllers

I have the PowerMover Model AC-2 (http://www.powermoverinc.net/pmaccarts.htm) and have been very pleased with it. Because of the steepness of my driveway (about a 10% grade), a manual mover was simply out of the question. And given the close quarters in my garage (when parked there's only 4 inches between the TM and garage wall), I felt that moving the TM in/outwith a front bumper mounted trailer ball was just asking for an expensive crunch.

As for being able to apply the TM's brakes while using the PowerMover, that was also one of my prerequisites given the driveway grade. I suppose you could do it with the Prodigy by using the manual control (the inertia feature won't work), but I think you'll find that obtaining and wiring up the connector is more trouble than it's worth. Plus you will only have braking for as long as you hold the lever...move your hands to do something else and you also release the brakes (not good on a steep slope).

If you ask for one when you order it, the PowerMover folks will include a brake switch (a simple on/off toggle) in the PowerMover's control box. It's an all or nothing situation w/regard to the TM's brakes but with a top speed of about 1 mph, that's not a problem...and it keeps the brakes applied while you move away to do something important like set chocks in front of the wheels.

As shipped, that switch is rigged to apply current from an external battery to the brakes of the trailer being moved. Whilst such an external battery is a necessity for using the PowerMover with non-house-battery trailers like horse trailers, it was a bit superfluous with trailers like the TM that have their own battery. Plus the battery was one more thing that had to be dealt with as the PowerMover was maneuvered. So I simply opened up their control box and connection cable and rewired things so that this switch would apply power from TM's power lead (the one that's used to charge the TM while being towed) directly to the wire going to the TM's brakes. Works beautifully as long as the TM's battery is charged.
RockyMtnRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2003, 02:21 PM   #15
Civil_War_Buff
Site Sponsor
 
Civil_War_Buff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 525
Default Re: Brake Controllers

Prodigy for under $100!  Here is a breakthrough price for the Prodigy Brake Controller for anyone interested:

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog...c3d36273d27a92

Larry
Civil_War_Buff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2003, 03:53 PM   #16
flyday
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Controllers

WAY TO GO, LARRY!
Don't know how you find these deals but under $100 for the Prodigy gets my bucks easily. I should give you a finder's fee...
Dick
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2003, 04:47 AM   #17
flyday
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Controllers

HOT HOT HOT :-[
JUST LOCATED PRODIGYS ON AMAZON.COM WITH A BUY-IT-NOW PRICE OF $79.99 TO $82.99 PLUS $8 SHIPPING.

This is an auction, so some may not want this option. I've had good luck with ebay auctions, so this was too good to pass up. There's 4 more units as of this post, but only one @ $79.99. Good luck! ;D
Dick
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2003, 08:22 AM   #18
DancinCampers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Brake Controllers

Larry,

Thanks for the info.  Ordered one on the 6th & it came today via UPS.  $8 shipping, total $106.99

I have an older Tekonsha (circuit 1985) which still works, but am looking forward to the new system.

FYI, when I was ordering on the website, I got to the section to enter credit card info & noticed my browser did not show a padlock for secure site.  I didn't order on web, instead called them to let them know & ordered via phone.  They said they would fix, but would advise anyone who uses the site to double check.  

FYI, unit came with both bracket & pocket mount, carrying case & short wire harness.

PS:  For those heading to the National Rally, Sharon & I will be teaching line dancing, maybe some two-step.   Stop by & say Hi.

Dan
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2005, 09:24 PM   #19
PopBeavers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default re: brake controllers

This topic (brake controllers) is a little old to make me comfortable.

Is the Prodigy by Tekonsha still the electric trailer brake controller of choice?

I have a new 2005 TM 2720 on order. Need a controller by end of March. TV is 2003 Chevy 1500hd crew cab 6.0L automatic.

Dealer can install anything I want. The dealer is almost 2 hours away. Dealer has recommended that I might want to get a brake controller installed ahead of time.

Dealer Service Rep says he prefers the Draw Tite (if I got that right) with the digital readout. That is what they have on all of their TV's. Claims it is easier to adjust while driving. It appears to me from reading various posts and forums that the Prodigy is better because it doesn't need to be adjusted while driving.

I live in San Jose, CA. Driving in the Sierras will be common. Rockies on occasion. Definitely not limited to flat ground.

Price is not an issue. Compared to what I have just spent this month on the TV and the TM, 100 bucks is cheap. RVWhoesalers.com is still showing it under 100 bucks. Are they a good choice for supplier?

I'm a pretty handy guy, studied electronic engineering once upon a time. Took electric shop in high school (boy that was a while ago). Certainly know how to strip wires and solder them. Would I be able to install it myself? I have some experience towing trailers with surge brakes and driving motor homes, but have never used electric trailer brakes before.

I have some sort of brake controller wiring harness that came with the truck. Plug at one end, pigtails at the other. Will I need to buy a controller specific wiring harness or do I already have what I need?

Should I have it professionally installed? There is a Camping World store within 20 miles of home. I haven't checked their prices.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2005, 08:01 AM   #20
RockyMtnRay
TrailManor Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 816
Default Brake Controller 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by PopBeavers
This topic (brake controllers) is a little old to make me comfortable.
First, I'll provide a short treatise on "Brake Controllers 101", then I'll answer your specific questions...

Brake Controllers 101

The very first thing to understand is that virtually all brake controllers (and hitches) on the market are now made by the same parent company and are sold under a variety of brand names....specifically Tekonsha and Draw-tite are the same company (and that also includes Reese, Hidden Hitch, SurePull, Bulldog, Wesbar, Fulton). Furthermore, there is now a great deal of model overlap (with different model names) amongst these various companies. For instance, the Draw-tite Intella-Stop Ultra controller is absolutely identical to the Tekonsha Prodigy. That having been said, the Drawtite and Reese brands have been mostly associated with lower cost, truly dangerous time-delay controllers. Since the brands (and models) are mostly interchangeable, that means you really need to focus on the controller's technology....

The second thing to understand is there are 4 different kinds of controller technology and there are some pretty huge differences in controller effectiveness and ease-of-use between them. However, with 1 exception there is not much over a $80 difference in "street" price amongst these types. While reading this, always hold in the front of your mind that the ideal brake controller causes the level of trailer braking to be 100% proportional to the level of tow vehicle braking. 3 of the 4 controller technologies provide trailer braking proportional to tow vehicle braking level; one (time-delay) provides braking proportional to the amount of time (not level) that the tow vehicle brakes are activated.

Getting into the specifics of the various types:

TIme Delay Uses a very simple time-based "ramping" circuit that provides a voltage/current to the trailer brakes that's proportional to how long the tow vehicle brake pedal is depressed. Has a "gain" control that adjusts how great the current will be when fully ramped up; another control determines how fast the current ramps up. Advantatge: lowest cost. Disadvantages: Many. I consider time-delay controllers to be truly dangerous because:
  • In a panic stop (particularly at highway speeds), the controller will not provide any effective level of trailer braking for several seconds (until the current ramps up) and therefore all braking has to be done by the tow vehicle during the first few hundred feet of stopping. This is an extremely dangerous characteristic...owners of time delay controllers try to compensate for this defect by adjusting their gain and ramp speed controls very high when on the highway.
  • In slow traffic (city driving) and other circumstances where steady but light brake pedal usage is appropriate, a time-delay controller will gradually bring the trailer brakes to nearly lockup state after a few seconds of gradual braking. So owners of time-delay controllers have to adjust the gain and ramping speed way down when they're in situations needing steady but light braking.
  • The time delay controller snaps the trailer brakes from full on to completely off as soon as the brake pedal releases...this causes a lot of banging and lurching from trailer into tow vehicle.
The bottom line is a time-delay controller requires almost constant adjustment...a safety factor in and of itself (no wonder dealers of these point out the "ease of adjustment while driving") and seldomly if ever provide a level of trailer braking that's truly appropriate to the level of tow vehicle braking. Most controllers sold under the Draw Tite and Reese brand names are of this type. AVOID TIME DELAY CONTROLLERS.

Deceleration or "Inertia" based There are actually two kinds of deceleration sensing controllers...those that use deflection of a mechanical pendulum (where the "inertia" name comes from) and those that use multiple solid state deceleration sensors.
  • While far, far better than any time-based controller, the pendulum controllers have a weakness...they're affected by gravity as well as by vehicle deceleration. That means they have a fairly narrow range of mounting angles (even with the built in adjustment mechanism that places the pendulum vertically when stopped) and, in hilly/mountainous terrain, they provide too much braking on descents and not enough braking on ascents. For towing on nearly flat terrain, a pendulum based controller will work very well. The Tekonsha Voyager controller is a representative pendulum based controller.
  • The solid state deceleration sensor types use at least two sensors on different axis and various comparator circuits to discriminate between the force of gravity and the force of actual vehicle deceleration. Solid state sensor controllers therefore are not affected by gravity and provide trailer braking that's truly proportional to tow vehicle deceleration even on steep mountain grades. The prime (and first) of this kind is the highly rated Tekonsha Prodigy. Since a solid state sensor based controller is essentially self-adjusting for both deceleration and gravity, they're truly a set-and-forget controller that needs no adjustment while driving. The only disadvantage is the extra circuitry makes them a bit more expensive.
Brake Pedal movement based. The only widely sold model of this type is the Jordan Ultima. It has a mechanical cable that attaches to the brake pedal...the more the pedal is moved, the more braking the trailer gets. Advantage: the display shows actual current going to the trailer, not just the voltage on the brake wire. Disadvantage: (1) slightly more difficult to install; (2) vehicles that non-linear brake movement/brake pressure will not get proportional braking, (3) deceleration using a combination of wheel braking and engine braking (transmission in lower gear) will cause insufficient trailer brake activation. The Jordan controller is priced about the same as the Prodigy.

Brake fluid pressure based The only one currently being advertised is from MasterBrake. It uses a solid state pressure transducer in the output line of the brake master cylinder and, in theory, should provide the most proportional trailer braking. However, it will provide too-little trailer braking if the driver is using a combination of transmission/engine and wheel braking; it may also provide too little trailer braking if the tow vehicle has some kind of pressure booster as is used in "panic braking enhancement" systems. Much pricier than the other systems too...the controller runs about $239 and requires a harness kit (an additional $110).

End of lesson.

Now for your questions:
Quote:

Is the Prodigy by Tekonsha still the electric trailer brake controller of choice?
Yes...because it provides truly proportional braking. The Draw-tite Intella-Stop Ultra is 100% identical to the Prodigy. Stay away from virtually all other Draw Tite models, particulary any that are time-based.
Quote:
Dealer Service Rep says he prefers the Draw Tite (if I got that right) with the digital readout. That is what they have on all of their TV's. Claims it is easier to adjust while driving. It appears to me from reading various posts and forums that the Prodigy is better because it doesn't need to be adjusted while driving.
Absolutely avoid any controller that is claimed to be "easier to adjust while driving". That's a sure sign of a time-based controller that must be adjusted while driving . Solid state sensor controllers truly do not need to be adjusted since they have circuits that automatically provide proportional braking.
Quote:
I live in San Jose, CA. Driving in the Sierras will be common. Rockies on occasion. Definitely not limited to flat ground.
Even more reason to get a solid state based controller instead of a traditional pendulum based controller that will be affected by steep grades.
Quote:
Price is not an issue. Compared to what I have just spent this month on the TV and the TM, 100 bucks is cheap. RVWhoesalers.com is still showing it under 100 bucks. Are they a good choice for supplier?
Do a search...seems to me several people have ordered from them.
Quote:
I have some sort of brake controller wiring harness that came with the truck. Plug at one end, pigtails at the other. Will I need to buy a controller specific wiring harness or do I already have what I need?
.
If the truck came with a universal controller wiring harness that means the vehicle itself is prewired and that in turn means hooking up the controller is a very easy DIY job. You can use the provided harness and solder its wires to the wires in the universal harness that comes in the Prodigy box. Or you could spend another $10 to $15 and buy a GMC/Chevy specific Prodigy harness that plugs into the Prodigy on one end and the truck on the other end with no soldering needed. Doing the soldering between the wiring of the two universal harnesses isn't hard if you have some soldering skills and use electrical insulation (good quality electrical tape, shrink wrap insulator, or paint on insulator).
__________________
Ray

I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers


The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


RockyMtnRay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2022 Trailmanor Owners Page.