Upcoming torsion bar replacement

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Larryjb

I just had a thought. The shell overshoots the alignment pins which means the pocket stops are not engaging. This could mean that the shell is resting too low on the lift arms.

Larry -

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that overshooting the alignment of the latch bar with the pins is a big deal. On both my TMs, the swing-up latch bars had to be spaced out from the surface on a bunch of washers in order to engage the pins at the proper shell position. This required a different number of washers on each bar. And when I had occasion to take my TM to two different dealers (MCD and Colorado Springs), they sometimes came back with more or fewer washers. And the shells always overshot the pins.

My impression was always that you should set the shell at the proper place per the pocket stops, and then change the location of the swing-up bars to whatever position is required to hold it there.

Just FWIW ...

Bill

[Larryjb]

Bill, this raises some interesting questions.

If the alignment to the pins needs adjustment, what defines the correct adjustment?

If the lift arm to trailer bottom must be 39. 5" but the shell is still too low, what is causing it to be too low?

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Remember earlier I had concluded that the shell rests on the pocket stop adjustment bolt? If this is so, then adjusting this bolt will do two things:

1) limit the shell travel to the open position. This most of us are familiar with.

2) raises or lowers the shell.
Stick with me on this for a moment. If the lift arm is set to 39.5", and the pocket stop bolt is turned out, this bolt will raise the shell slightly without changing the 39.5" specification. This also explains why the hole in the lift arm is actually a slot shape. This allows the shell to rise a little as the pocket stop bolt is turned out.

Finally, why is the lower door frame still interfering with the upper shell if the lift arm is set to 40"?

[Larryjb]

I have confirmed that the pocket stop adjustment bolts will affect the height of the shell. The 39.5" specification from the trailer bottom to the bottom of the lift arm remains unchanged.

When I turned out the adjustment bolt 1/2", the shell on one side raised 1/2" but the 39.5" spec did not change. I also noted that the shell was sitting above the lift arm slot and I could not insert the shoulder pivot bolt through the shell and lift arm. I may be able to push the shell and lift arm back to get the two holes to match.

When I turned the pocket stop adjustment bolt on the curb side, the shell did not lift up. I will have to investigate this because this could indicate a bigger problem with that pocket stop.

[Larryjb]

I got the trailer closed tonight!

I tilted the trailer up about 5" overall and closed the front shell. First time was tough, but I got it down. It no longer crashes onto the rubber bumpers on the frame, and it seems to lower evenly even though I haven't adjusted the torsion bars yet.

It lifts easily, but about 1/2 way up I seem to need two hands underneath to lift the shell more before it swings on its own. This probably means the torsion bars need adjustment. All the front shell torsion bars are backed off right now. Apparently, the end of the shell in the middle of the trailer should raise about 8" on its own when the latch is released. With no added tension on the torsion bars it seems to raise about 12". This could be from tension in the front torsion bars, so I'll probably try adding some tension to these torsion bars first to see the effects of my efforts.



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One big disappointment today was that I separated the wall from the roof slightly. I think this is easily fixable, but I'll have to remove the vinyl strip and trim, then get some bar clamps to hold the wall to the roof, remove the stripped screws, then drill new holes to hold the roof in place again.

One small mistake, one big fix. I hate days like this.

[Larryjb]

I made some adjustments to the tension on the torsion bars today. I saw that street side was slower to collapse so I increased the curb side half a turn and now it collapses evenly. I adjusted the center to just contacting the torsion bars. It then popped up too high when releasing the main latches so backed off each centre adjustment 2 full turns. I can now pretty much open and close the front shell with one hand!

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Larryjb

I made some adjustments to the tension on the torsion bars today. I saw that street side was slower to collapse so I increased the curb side half a turn and now it collapses evenly. I adjusted the center to just contacting the torsion bars. It then popped up too high when releasing the main latches so backed off each center adjustment 2 full turns. I can now pretty much open and close the front shell with one hand!

If I am reading correctly: You adjusted the bolt for the NEW front street-side bar (adjustment bolt under the front curb side) by increasing 1/2 turn from "snug" zero.

Both adjustment bolts for both front shell bars at the midpoint of the TM (Bars NOT replaced) that had previously been tightened quite a ways, but now need just turns less (now creates only about 4-5" of pop-up) behind the air conditioner?

[Larryjb]

All torsion bars were backed off completely. With new torsion bars I'd have had no hope of closing the shell if I had kept the original adjustment! I only adjusted the center torsion bars to snug initially, then backed them off from snug.

The front torsion bars were backed off completely. The new torsion bars had so much tension that they were already snug with zero turns on the adjustment bolt. The only thing I did with the front torsion bar adjustment so far is turn the curb side torsion bar that half turn in from fully backed off.

[Larryjb]

In one of my recent posts, I was not clear as to what I was doing when adjusting torsion bars, so I'll attempt to be a little more clear.

I have not seen any description for adjusting torsion bars when you know they are balanced, or even. The only description I have seen is to adjust each side equally. However, metal fatigue may not always affect all torsion bars equally, so one side may actually need more adjustment than another. Also, a shell that doesn't rise evenly or collapse evenly can create as much difficult effort as not having enough tension. For this reason, REDUCING tension on a side that is going up faster can actually make opening and closing easier because the shell is binding. If you were to increase tension on both sides equally, that might help a little, but you'd not be fixing the binding problem.

This can be a very daunting task, but I don't think it has to be.

Here is what I'm going by so far:


NOTE: to change how the curb side rises/falls, adjust the street side bolt. To change how the street side rises/falls, adjust the curb side bolt. If you look underneath your trailer, the lift arm is connected to torsion bar which is always adjusted on the opposite side of the trailer.

NOTE: You may need to clean the threads of the torsion bar adjustment bolts using some penetrating fluid. Then you can apply some antiseize to make future adjustments easier.

ALSO: Always adjust torsion bar tension when the shell is open. Never when closed.

1) Close the trailer, then open the front shell. Observe how far it opens at the latch. If it opens too far (more than 8", measured from the latch to the bottom of the shell), either the front or rear torsion bars could be too tight.

If the front of the shell rises more than 3-4", try backing off the tension of the front torsion bars. Count the turns so you can easily go back. Close the trailer and test how much the shell opens at the latch.

If the front of the shell did not rise much, than the center torsion bars are too tight. Adjust them so that the shell rises at the latch 6-8". Make sure the rise is equal on both sides. If the rise is not equal, the shell will bind horribly when opening and closing, making opening your TM difficult.

Now open the shell fully, then close but do not latch. Observe how the shell falls. If it tips to one side as it falls, you can:
a) increase the tension for the front torsion bar on the opposite side
or
b) decrease the tension for the front torsion bar on the same side.

For NEW torsion bars:
If you have NEW torsion bars, all 4 torsion bars should be backed off completely and the shell opened and closed about 1/2 dozen times to exercise the new torsion bars.

Then:
Set the center torsion bar adjustment so that the adjustment bolt is snug with the torsion bar. Try closing. If it is too difficult to close, back off the adjustment on each side equally until it will close easily.

If it lifts too high, continue to reduce the tension by half a turn each until each side is 6-8" rise. Make sure the rise is equal on both sides.

For the front torsion bars, make sure the shell falls evenly. Increase the tension to make opening the shell easier.



My rear shell used to be easy to open and close while my front shell was horrible. Now with the new torsion bars, and the adjustments made, it is easier to open and close than the rear shell. Bill had once commented on how there was a portion of the opening swing that was more difficult than the rest of the opening swing. I'd have to say that my front shell opens quite easily with one hand now. I'm not sure if I'd still say the same thing in 20 years time or not, but I think the entire swing up takes pretty even effort.

If this is confusing, let me know by pm so doesn't get cluttered.

I'm also working on the procedure for the torsion bar replacement, but I thought people might like to hear what I'm doing about adjusting the torsion bars.

[ManorAg]

Larry,

All of your posts are very interesting and I admire your willingness to attempt a project yourself. I know tackling these kinds of jobs for the first time come with setbacks and take a lot of time. However, when you do the same job a second time, it's soo much easier.

Your last post was especially beneficial in helping me to better understand the torsion bar adjustments. I just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to document your work and provide explanations.

Jarrod

[Larryjb]

Your welcome Jarrod. I'll be posting a separate procedure for replacing the torsion bars later. I've been overwhelmed with getting the trailer ready for camping. I had stepped in some doodoo and tracked it onto the carpet . We had always wanted to get rid of the carpet, and I wanted to see why the vinyl floor by the kitchen felt bubbled, so I stripped out all the carpet and vinyl. You can see my trials and tribulations with that project here: https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ad.php?t=19756

You see, if &*()& could possibly happen, it will happen to me. So, I posted solutions to all the &*()& that happened on that job and how I solved it.

I had never been satisfied with any torsion bar adjustment procedure posted anywhere. I knew it had to be even side to side, and I proved that problem when I first tried to close the trailer and the shell was "falling" badly to one side. While the shell was down, I saw it leaning to one side at the front so I decided to try turning the adjustment bolt a couple of turns until it leveled out.

Now I have an issue with the shell that I thought used to be the good shell (the rear shell). Actually nothing has changed, it's just that the front shell opens and closes to nicely. The rear shell does open nicely, but there is too much tension on the torsion bars at the center, even though the adjustment bolts have been backed out fully. It often takes two people to close the rear shell, each one closing at the same time. Otherwise, the shell twists and binds as you try to step on the stirrup.

I do have a torsion bar replacement procedure in the works. I want to review it some more before posting it, and make sure I include relevant photos.

Also, this is a job I don't want to repeat. The torsion bar itself is actually easy. The issue is raising the shell. I partially separated the wall from the roof. That is in the process of being fixed. It is reattached, but I'm not convinced it's secure.