keeping battery charged

[mcgyver210]

since we purchased our 2008 TM 3023 on Fathers-day in 2008 we have always had it plugged up while not in use. I check the battery regularly but haven't had to add any water. The only electrical issue I had was TMs fault for using a wire nut to connect all the positive power to the different systems. This was a JOKE seriously. I have finally rewired it with a heavier duty fuse & connections.

The battery is the original one that came with the trailer. I have also noticed after fixing the wiring my tongue jack works better when not connected to tow vehicle.


So for now the converter charger is working just as good as my other chargers including the $300.00 Guest Smart Marine charger.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by mcgyver210

since we purchased our 2008 TM 3023 on Fathers-day in 2008 we have always had it plugged up while not in use. I check the battery regularly but haven't had to add any water. The only electrical issue I had was TMs fault for using a wire nut to connect all the positive power to the different systems. This was a JOKE seriously. I have finally rewired it with a heavier duty fuse & connections.

The battery is the original one that came with the trailer. I have also noticed after fixing the wiring my tongue jack works better when not connected to tow vehicle.


So for now the converter charger is working just as good as my other chargers including the $300.00 Guest Smart Marine charger.

Don't get too confident in the water level staying up. Some people do that and the 1st time that they neglect to check the water, the plates get exposed and the battery fails.

I know that you know that. I just didn't want others to feel that checking the water is an exercise in futility. As the water slowly evaporates (and it does) it also slowly looses its ability to keep the battery cool. As the battery heat increases, the water loss increases. It can all go upside down quite quickly.

[mcgyver210]

Originally Posted by harveyrv

Don't get too confident in the water level staying up. Some people do that and the 1st time that they neglect to check the water, the plates get exposed and the battery fails.

I know that you know that. I just didn't want others to feel that checking the water is an exercise in futility. As the water slowly evaporates (and it does) it also slowly looses its ability to keep the battery cool. As the battery heat increases, the water loss increases. It can all go upside down quite quickly.

Agreed & since I have so many batteries I just routinely check levels & test batteries. Sorry I thought I did say I check regularly oops my bad. Even though I have tons to learn I do sometimes forget some things I think are self explanatory really aren't.

[T and C]

Tim,

Thanks for the links.

My TM suffers from the common problem of arriving at a campsite with the batteries low. The cause is that the refrigerator and fan draw more power than is replaced by the TV. There are fixes but they all seem to be beyond my level of understanding. I know very little about electricity.

When I plugged in to the campsite AC, my power center began to make a noise I had not heard before. I listened and figured it must be a cooling fan.

Sure enough, the manual says that when it kicks into bulk mode a cooling fan clicks on.

Tom

[mcgyver210]

Originally Posted by T and C

Tim,

Thanks for the links.

My TM suffers from the common problem of arriving at a campsite with the batteries low. The cause is that the refrigerator and fan draw more power than is replaced by the TV. There are fixes but they all seem to be beyond my level of understanding. I know very little about electricity.

When I plugged in to the campsite AC, my power center began to make a noise I had not heard before. I listened and figured it must be a cooling fan.

Sure enough, the manual says that when it kicks into bulk mode a cooling fan clicks on.

Tom

I haven't actually tested the available Amps from my Tow Vehicle with larger size 12v charge wire so take my experience as what it is.

Since buying the TM we have had same problem even on a short trip. The battery was too weak to even run our tongue jack when we arrived. So I tested the battery & acid finding both were ok. This led me to the assumption that the fridge & fridge fan was just too much for my alternator to keep the battery charged.

However recently I replaced the crappy fuse holder & wiring with a heavier more robust setup. So what happen next was a surprise we went on our Thanks Giving Day Trip & arrived at camp ground expecting as usual to need to keep the tow vehicle hooked up during leveling with tongue jack.

But we ended up with a good charged battery that worked fine. Now if I remember I plan on testing voltage when we return home just to see how well the battery is charged after a road trip.

Really the way TM connected my wiring was in a word DANGEROUS IMO that is. I should have investigated it more when first purchased based on a few comments I read here but I kept thinking surely the guys are just overkilling since a manufacture wouldn't do something totally wrong. Now we love our TM but I have found a few potentially bad issues with it so I no longer assume they are correct on the way they build it.



Ps. This is a very easy & inexpensive mod so it might be worth trying & even if it doesn't solve your issue is a good mod to have IMO.

I used an audio quality larger fuse holder which I may change to a 12v heavy duty breaker in the future.

I also used marine grade wire to go to the battery.

And last I shielded the fuse holder from weather.


Oh & I also noticed the Ground wire was corroded & not making a good connection so I cut it & reconnected it to frame. I plan on weather proofing this connection sometime soon also just didn't have time before trip.

Now all this will doi nothing if you are using a small gauge charge wire though which if you aren't mechanical can get a bit more technical to fix.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by mcgyver210

I haven't actually tested the available Amps from my Tow Vehicle with larger size 12v charge wire so take my experience as what it is.

Since buying the TM we have had same problem even on a short trip. The battery was too weak to even run our tongue jack when we arrived. So I tested the battery & acid finding both were ok. This led me to the assumption that the fridge & fridge fan was just too much for my alternator to keep the battery charged.

However recently I replaced the crappy fuse holder & wiring with a heavier more robust setup. So what happen next was a surprise we went on our Thanks Giving Day Trip & arrived at camp ground expecting as usual to need to keep the tow vehicle hooked up during leveling with tongue jack.

But we ended up with a good charged battery that worked fine. Now if I remember I plan on testing voltage when we return home just to see how well the battery is charged after a road trip.

Really the way TM connected my wiring was in a word DANGEROUS IMO that is. I should have investigated it more when first purchased based on a few comments I read here but I kept thinking surely the guys are just overkilling since a manufacture wouldn't do something totally wrong. Now we love our TM but I have found a few potentially bad issues with it so I no longer assume they are correct on the way they build it.



Ps. This is a very easy & inexpensive mod so it might be worth trying & even if it doesn't solve your issue is a good mod to have IMO.

I used an audio quality larger fuse holder which I may change to a 12v heavy duty breaker in the future.

I also used marine grade wire to go to the battery.

And last I shielded the fuse holder from weather.


Oh & I also noticed the Ground wire was corroded & not making a good connection so I cut it & reconnected it to frame. I plan on weather proofing this connection sometime soon also just didn't have time before trip.

Now all this will doi nothing if you are using a small gauge charge wire though which if you aren't mechanical can get a bit more technical to fix.

I used a battery isolator to feed the charge line on our coleman pop-up plus when we stopped for a meal I would turn the refrig off. Since the TM refrig controls are all inside I plan on installing a switch in a weather proof box under the TM to turn the refrig and fan on/off, also I need to upgrade the wiring from the TV to TM charge line. The fuse problem in ours wasn't done at the factory, it was done at the dealer. A 30 amp breaker should be good unless you plan on installing a big inverter at some time.

[scrubjaysnest]

Just an update to this thread on leaving the TM hooked up to shore power.
I ran three test so far and my results were not what I expected.
The results of my test could be due to three things
1. improperly designed test
2. Failed converter
3. It really isn't a 3 stage
Because of the first two items, number 3 can't be proved at this time.

My background, probably not important, Electronics engineering degree with over 40 years experience. That doesn't mean I didn't mess up (1).

My results:
Test #1
Hooked up a mostly fully charged, more then 90%, 95Ah marine deep cycle. Starting voltage on the batt 12.73VDC.
After 5 hours the voltage at the battery = the converter output 13.66VDC. I measured the volt drop between the converter and battery and found it to be 2mVDC which indicates a very small current flow to the battery. At no time did I see the 14.4VDC, boost which wasn't expected, or the 13.2 VDC, float which I did expect.

Test #2
ran the refrig on DC for 45 minutes and all lights on the front shell. Shore power was removed. Next I applied a 50 amp load for 15 seconds. This 50 amp load was applied 15 times to get the battery down to a 40% level.
Removed all loads including the parasites. Connected up the shore power and converter output went to 13.66VDC and stayed there for the next 14 hours.
The battery had reached full charge. The converter output never went to boost, 14.4VDC which I did expect this time. It also never went to 13.2VDC Float. Ok now what? With shore power connected and changing loads; the converter cooling fan comes on and changes speed so it does sense load changes. What about the constant output voltage maybe a failed converter?
At this point I don't know.

Test #3
Used a cranking battery for this test. Its rest voltage was 12.2VDC, sure is discharged. A note about this battery it will hold a charge for about two days as long as the vehicle is run regularly.
At 12.2VDC the converter should go straight to 14.4VDC out put for 4 hours, per the manual it does this when it senses 13.2 VDC. The converter never did this. It went right to 13.66VDC and stayed there.

Any thoughts here from the group?

[Barb&Tim]

Just my thoughts....

The lack of the bulk charge voltage (14.4v) seems troubling as it seems that your test(s) should have triggered it.

As for the float voltage, it may just be hiding from you

The manual says the float voltage should not kick in until around 48 hours of not sensing a load change. -- not sure if you waited that long?.. Another reason, it may be hard to detect as it might possibly be masked by the surface charge that has built up on the battery during absorption mode (13.6v).

If it ever warms up a little around here i plan on testing ours also.

Will be interested in your findings if you are doing further testing.

Tim

Same results here. 13.6V when on shore power no matter what. At least that doesn't exceed my batteries gassing voltage, so, although 13.2V would be better, I'm not worried about over-heating and drying out the batteries during float.

As for real charging, I've got a separate "intelligent" charger for that.

It's as if the thing doesn't have the charger function at all. It's just a 13.6VDC converter with a battery attached.

[ZekenSpider]

My 2 cents is:

I agree that test #3 should have triggered the bulk charge rate. I have watched to see if it would happen on my 2010 3326 with the "three stage charger". It never has. My solar charger always goes on at 13.3 v and runs the voltage up to 14.4 v before the battery gets low enough for the converter to kick in.

Maybe the converter has to sense not only a low battery voltage (I should say DC Buss voltage since it really only senses the Buss voltage) but a heavy load as well.

As to test #1, I have seen the same thing, but attributed it to the "phantom load" (constant 2 to 3 ma control circuit loads) that keep the battery (Buss) discharging. Perhaps that prevents the "converter" from sensing a "fully charged" condition.

I'll do some more testing when I get to the TM next month.

Jerry