Shell latch "bracket" problem

[Denny_A]

Ummm.....nevermind. Guess .jpg don't post in General. Learn something new everyday

[Denny_A]

jeober wrote:

>You might:

>Ask the factory to weld a pair of strikers each to an approx. 3" long metal bracket with holes and paint. Or you could have this done locally in a manner so these plates clear the existing misc. screws which hold things together. These new holes will get you virgin material for sure and provide a stronger anchor than the original.
>
>Have your local dealer or someone capable to reinstall and adjust the latches for the added material thickness.
>

Took me a while to visualize your engineering proposal. Let me state my understanding of it and see if I get the picture.

Since about 2.4 inches of buggered-up drillings has to be spanned, a pair of striker "pins", would be welded to a bracket which is long enough to span each side of the carnage.

Only one striker is used in the standard application, so I'm having trouble with that mental picture of how it would be adjusted to align with the latching hook.

Problem I see with that is that the hook latch's width would require the strikers to be too far apart- and no adjustment is possible. A striker either lines up with the hook, or it doesn't. The second striker would seem to be superfluous.

Taking your idea a step further, I think a bracket 6" long would allow for 2 screws/drillings on either side of the messed up area. Then a longitudinal slot coud be drilled in either end of the bracket to facilitate fore and aft alignment for latching. The standard brackets have logitudinal slots for that purpose. Then drill four holes in virgin material, 2 on either side of the messed up area.

The combo of slots in the new bracket and drillings to choose from should allow enough range for fore & aft alignment with the hook assy.

Appreciate your input. You got me thinking of a fix whch doesnt require any welding on the camper. Don't know what the heat would do to the shell innards.


Denny_A

I think I wasn't clear...

What i was describing was to cut a strip of metal about 3/4" by 3.5", weld a striker right onto it, and put hole each side of the striker (these being about 2.75" apart).

You could put elongated holes here if you think you can get a good clamping force from your fastener.  Use some Loctite if you know what this is.  

However, I don't think it would be hard to locate the striker for drilling:  Engage the loose striker in the latch, have someone hold the shell down while you mark the drilling holes.  Having said this though I watched the factory repairman mis-drill a bunch of holes when we recently had our latches upgraded.  I guess it needs to be a two man job.

[Denny_A]

jeober wrote:

>What i was describing was to cut a strip of metal about 3/4" by 3.5", weld a striker right onto it, and put hole each side of the striker (these being about 2.75" apart).<

>You could put elongated holes here if you think you can get a good clamping force from your fastener. Use some Loctite if you know what this is. <

>However, I don't think it would be hard to locate the striker for drilling: Engage the loose striker in the latch, have someone hold the shell down while you mark the drilling holes. Having said this though I watched the factory repairman mis-drill a bunch of holes when we recently had our latches upgraded. I guess it needs to be a two man job.<

Thank you. I think I got it. But, as you said, it's a one shot deal when aligning the assembly, marking and drilling. One oops and on to plan B. Still, with extra care, it should be ok.

I take it that when you said weld two strikers ro a metal strip, you meant a second as a backup if trouble were encountered. Each would be identical (?); holes being drilled in the same spot on each strip.

Very much appreciate your input.


Denny_A

i have a 3023, 2001 i bought in april i went out and looked at the aft shell latch brackets and even without removing them i can count at least 5 or 6 holes for the brackets that have been drilled. the two screws that secure each bracket seem to be solid and tight i put a wrench on them, should i be concerned about so many holes being drilled in that area or should i be contacting my dealer and bringing it to his attention. i don't want a problem with them later down the road when the warranty is gone. any info from you or what you have learned from the factory would be greatly appreciated.   thank you in advance.

[Denny_A]

Emma opined:

  >should i be concerned about so many holes being drilled in that area or should i be contacting my dealer and bringing it to his attention. i don't want a problem with them later down the road when the warranty is gone.<

In the "TrailManor Pictures" section, look at the 5th photo (4th reply) of the photos showing the probs I've had.

The 5th photo is as close as can be to the standard drilling in the bottom edge of the shell.

There are 5 holes, in a straight line (even tho I counted(?) 4). With that arrangement there are 3 possible position in which the striker bracket can be secured. Threading the bolts into holes #2 and #4 being (I feel confident) the normal position, if all had gone well during the pre-drilling during manufacture.

Therefore anything beyond 5 holes was an attempt to correct for an error or two.

I'm willing to bet (or not) that if all the brackets on 10 TM's were pulled and inspected, at most, one might show signs of free-lancing to salvage fitment. Three of the  4 drillings on my TM were "a little strange". Which leads me to believe an unsupervised, OJT, new employee is as good a reason as any for the sloppy work.

My wife and I returned yesterday from a 5 day trip. This morning when we opened up our TM, we discovered that the upper shell's latch pin bracket on the curb side came off at that same moment. One of the bracket's 5/16" machine screws apparently had dropped off on to the highway somewhere. The other was dangling from the loose bracket.

Last year the latch pin bracket on the other side of the upper shell came off while returning home from a two week trip. I welded up a bracket similar to the one Jeober suggested and screwed it into two new holes. So far, the bracket is still attached, but, I expect it to come off in the future - for reasons I'll explain in the next paragraph.

The main problem with the TM factory's method of attaching these brackets is that the underside edges of the shells appear to be 1/16" to 3/32" thick aluminum. This thin aluminum sheet does not provide adequate holding power for either sheet metal screws or machine screws. As you might expect, the latch pin brackets are under considerable tension when the shells are closed. Since each bracket is attached by two screws inserted into thin aluminum, it is only a matter of time when the brackets come off. That time usually occurs when the trailer is bouncing around on the highway during a trip.

Even if DenTed were to have a new bracket welded up and attached with screws into new holes that straddled the old holes, the bracket is likely to come loose later - because the screws are inserted into thin aluminum sheet. A better method of attachment would be to insert rivet nuts into the underside of a shell and then fasten a bracket with machine screws. Rivet nuts are "pulled up" just like pop rivets. Unlike pop rivets, however, rivet nuts are internally threaded. They come in sizes ranging from 6-32 through 5/8"-16, in both aluminum and galvanized steel. Since the threaded barrel of a rivet nut may be 1/4" or longer, it will provide a lot of holding strength for a machine screw that's inserted into it.

Now that my second bracket has come loose, I plan to order some heavy duty ones from the TM factory - and attach them all with rivet nuts. ;D

Suppose I wanted to retrofit my new TM with rivet nuts as you have described. This enhancement seems quite robust and makes complete sense (to me). So much so I would think the factory would upgrade their current method at minimal cost. Working from a brand new TM, what parts would I need to obtain to accomplish this upgrade. I plan to do a lot of dry camping out in the boonies, over hill and dale and then back for more. I would be real unhappy if I lost a latch or two out there with no means to hold the top down securely for the rought ride out.

Wade

[Denny_A]

Wade wrote:

>Suppose I wanted to retrofit my new TM with rivet nuts as you have described. This enhancement seems quite robust and makes complete sense (to me). So much so I would think the factory would upgrade their current method at minimal cost. Working from a brand new TM, what parts would I need to obtain to accomplish this upgrade. <

Funny your post should be here; posing the right question at the right moment!

I finished repairing my damaged area about an hour ago. Taking Larry_Loo's riveting response, I bought me a 1) RivNut set ($10), a 2) 23/64 drill bit ($6), a 3) rat tail file ($3), and chose the 4) 1/4-20 thread size RivNut (3/8 o.d.).

Took enough of the appearance-molding screws out to drop the molding down, then pulled outboard and upward, and held it in place with a tie wrap on the little swing-out, upper-door catch.

To prevent the drill bit from wandering all over the place (I had double holes everywhere. I could have a) drilled a pilot hole in any metal stapping (like ones used for securing joists) for use as a drill guide, or b) used brut force and awkwardness, or c) finesse (Ha!). :

Me- none of the above. I found the exact spot between two merged holes, kept the drill unplugged, and slowly turned the bit by hand. Turns out there's a thin metal strip covering the aluminum and spanning only the area of the drillings. It tried to shread rather than drill. So I'd turn by hand, then do a little filing, and so on. In one instance, the 23/64 drill spanned both holes when the job was done, leaving a nice, clean, snug hole. The second set was a bit tough to keep the new hole confined to the position I chose. Here the rat-tail file was "very" useful. Still the edge of one of the holes was peaking out from under the RivNut collar at completion. I never did apply power to the drill.

End of story. Plugged the RivNuts it, snugged 'em, and used the same machine screws I bought under duress last week. The molding strip was repositioned over the Rivnut, and the machine screws went through the molding and into the RivNut. I may go back and drill the molding with a 3/8th's bit, since the collar is about molding thickness. No hurry.

The screws have a good grip on the RivNut AND thread into the tapped hole above the RivNut.

Problem solved - and the bracket is quite SECURE!

If one did not have to deal with my particular mess, then the drilling is straight forward. Be advised, however, that the aluminum is so soft that a drill spun up to speed quickly could slice through too rapidly, and start shreading the first layer of metal, followed by gouging out, rather than drilling through the aluminum beam. Patience is a virtue?

Denny_A ; A happy ;D camper!

This morning I reattached the curbside latch pin bracket on my TM, which detached itself a week ago while returning home from our last trip. I enlarged the two existing holes in the underside of the upper shell with a round file and then a 3/8" drill bit. After inserting a "1/4"-20 nut insert" into each hole, I tightened each down with a $2 insert tool that I purchased along with the nut inserts. Fastening the latch pin bracket back in place with two 1/4"-20 hex-head machine screws completed the repair.

I really wanted to use "knurled rivet nuts" for the repair because these have a wider flange than the nut inserts do, but, was unable to find any of them in our local hardware and agricultural supply stores. Knurled rivet nuts should give much greater holding power than the nut inserts because of the wider flanges. Although they are available from McMaster-Carr, I didn't want to purchase a package of 50 and a special rivet setting tool - priced from $75 to $230 - just for this one job. Therefore, the nut inserts will have to do. Even using the nut inserts, however, I believe this fastening method is stronger than the TM factory's method of screwing sheet metal screws into the 1/16" thick aluminum sheet on the underside of the shell. For those of you who don't know what nut inserts and rivet nuts are, look up McMaster-Carr's website at:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Thpe in "rivet nuts" in the search box on the left and click on "find" and you will be shown what they look like. : : :