Towing with 2005 Jeep Liberty diesel

I am considering various tow vehicle options for a TM model 2720. Has anyone had experience towing with a 2005 Jeep Liberty (diesel)? At sea level and/or in mountainous areas (e.g., the Rockies)? Bottomline: Would I be better advised getting a vehicle with more power? --Dan (TX)

[Bill]

Hi, Dan -

There was an extensive thread about the Liberty (not necessarily diesel) within the past year or so. It would be a good place for you to start. Use the search tool - it should be easy to find.

Bill

I bought a 2720SL and towed it with a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Found that the Jeep did not have large enough wire to the trailer plug to handle the load of all the running lights on the trailer. You might check to see if the model you plan to tow with has large enough wire.
Good luck,
Russell

Originally Posted by camperdan

I am considering various tow vehicle options for a TM model 2720. Has anyone had experience towing with a 2005 Jeep Liberty (diesel)? At sea level and/or in mountainous areas (e.g., the Rockies)? Bottomline: Would I be better advised getting a vehicle with more power? --Dan (TX)

Consumer Reports so badly panned the Liberty diesel's acceleration and mileage that I've already started looking at other vehicles. It's rated at 27MPG. However, I'd be especially interested in any responses to Dan that provide mileage info to confirm if CR mileage report of 18MPG is accurate, and to see therefore if a trailor brings the mileage down substantially further.

We have owned a jeep liberty diesel for almost a year now. I bought it as my wife's vehicle. Seh loves it. We live 3,000 feet higher than the city we work in and we have 5 foot of snow on the grund at our house. It handles very well on and off road and my wife loves the torque. The motor is relativley quite for a diesel and no diesel smell that is very noticiable. Two of our friends have bought liberty diesels based upon our experience and test driving ours in the last several months. My wife averages about 18 MPG in the city. I average 19-20 because I drive alittle more conservatively than she does. On the highway, going 65 MPH, we've got 24-25 MPG. Traveling at 75-80 MPH, we get 20-21 MPG. We're we'll be interested to see how much our mileage drops wehn we tow a TM with this diesel. We just bought a 2720sl and will be picking it up next week. Wanting a trailer that we could tow with the liberty and hoepfuly get still get 20-22 MPG on the highway is one of the biggest reasons we choose the TM over other trailers. I'll let you know how it works out. We bought an equilizer hitch and a prodigy brake controller. We'll be towing it up many stepp mountian roads in the rockies this summer. Based upon many of the threads I've read here many who have experience with towing TM's think that due to the short wheel base of the liberty you wouldn't want to pull a trailer any larger than the 2720. Rockymtnray who ahs many posts in this forum has a lot of experience using a jeep cherokee to haul his 2720. Wheel base is about the same as the liberty.

angler-2

If the TV is too short, you will get oversteer in the turns. That means, if you go into a cruve too fast, the trailer will be pushing the rear of your TV to the outside of the turn. That pushes the front end of the TV into the turn. On the wheel, you will get a "loss of feel". It feels like you are on ice. In fact, you might have to steer out of the turn a little. It gets worse if you do any braking in the curve. If you are in the rockies on a long down-hill with switch backs, you will be seeing this. Just be aware of it. Don't brake in the curve-- get the speed down before entering the curve. Be ready to hit that manual brake controler lever if it gets too serious. Know where the controler is without taking your eye off the road. Mine is right off my right knee-cap. A little warning and practice will do a lot to make this combination safer.

thanks for the heads up. Rockymntnray has helped to explain this also. I will try it out slowly. Should I be heading into the mountains,I'll try to keep the trailer as light as possible etc. first. If I don't feel comfortable about it and have white knuckles for most of the trip... I'll spend the extra $ for the increase in 6-8 mPG with my Ford F150. I did find a thread where "Mark"(a site sponsor) noted he pulled a his 2720 with a Mazda Tribute with an the equil-i-zer brand hitch and experienced no problems. The Tribute's wheel base is one inch shorter (103) than a liberty's. His post was in 2003 and he moved up to a Tundra as his TV. Not sure if he is still with this forum. Would be interesting to know what kind of roads he towed his 2720 on. Any of you long time members of this forum know more about his situation?

Originally Posted by camperdan

I am considering various tow vehicle options for a TM model 2720. Has anyone had experience towing with a 2005 Jeep Liberty (diesel)? At sea level and/or in mountainous areas (e.g., the Rockies)? Bottomline: Would I be better advised getting a vehicle with more power? --Dan (TX)

Dan,
We just picked up my 2000 2720sl this weekend with my jeep liberty diesel. It was a 1200 mile trip and all went very well. I was extremely impressed with how much torque the diesel engine had in the mountains. Climbed two passes on I 90 in Montana and only had to jump on it a handful of times to take it out of overdrive when speed fell below 60mph. I did have to slow to a crawl at one mountain pass because there was 2-3 inches of snow and slush and I didn't want to change lanes to pass the 18 wheeler I was following. I am used to towing a fifth wheeler with a 454 Chevy 1 ton and this setup was much easier to tow and I could easily accelerate to pass other vehicles going up hill with no problem at all. The torque on this engine is amazing.

Averaged 25.5 MPG at 80- MPH going (600 miles). 2100-2300 RPMS the whole way. Coming back with the trailer I averaged 20 MPG traveling 65-75 mph for 90% of the trip. I didn't expect the gas mileage to drop this much. Thought I'd get 21-22 MPG but sill this is pretty good. RPMS did change much 2000- 2300 RPMs going up or down hills. When I did put the pedal down to pass trailers on the long hills and it kicked out of overdrive my RPMs went up to 3,100-3,300 for very short periods of time (5-10 seconds). Red line begins at 4,000 on the liberty.

Trailer handled extremely well. You know it is back there but felt no sway and it stopped well going down hill. Made sure I braked before turns when ever I could. I did have to brake slightly in a few curves that weren't very tight and didn't feel anything out of the ordinary. The trailer was empty. I hit a white out, snow storm for one hour of the trip at night and had to slow down to 25-35 MPH to see. With 1-3 inches of wet snow/slush on road the trailer still handled well. It was strange though ...... I noticed that I got less gas mileage when I slowed down in the snow storm .... 18-19 MPG.

Wind was pretty calm going. Coming back I had some 10-20 mph cross winds at times. So wasn't a good test of how it handles in strong winds and when you get the 18 wheelers coming at you on the two lanes.

The only reason I bought a TM was that it was the only trailer that I found with a separate bedroom that I felt that I could tow safety with the liberty diesel because of the short wheel base. Based upon our maiden voyage I was very pleased and I think my wife and I are really going to enjoy this setup. Through rain, sleet and snow and over plains, hills and mountains this rig was a very responsive and easy to drive. We will be able to travel relatively inexpensively even with these high gas prices.

We did get some looks from passing cars once in a while. I think they see the trialer and as they come up besdie you they wonder what is pulling it and are surprised by how small the jeep looks compared to the trailer.

Let me know if you have any questions.I will be taking my TM on many steep mountain roads in Wyoming this summer and I will post how it goes.

angler_2 --

your two postings on the Jeep Liberty have rekindled my hope that it might work out for me. Even though I test drove an '05 last summer, I had given up hope after (1) reading a poor Consumer Reports article claiming very poor mileage and acceleration (0-60MPH in 31 seconds!?) and (2) after hearing about the down sides of a short wheel base per Bob Rederick's posting. I'd recently consigned myself to an XTerra or an SR5 sport truck to get even adequate torque for hills, though must admit the Honda Ridgeline had caught my attention as well. Anyway, as someone in the market for a 3023, I'd appreciate your/anyone's responses to some rookie questions on the Liberty and on towing generally:

#1. What is a manual brake controller? I thought the whole idea behind electric brakes on the trailer was that they were accuated by the brake pedal on the towing vehicle.

#2. I presume your Jeep is an automatic, but since I drive a stick (Suburu AWD), was wondering if shifting down (auto or stick) might help with descents, especially with a 4WD. Do you get the same sort of compression with a diesel as with a gasoline engine? I presume you'd recommend the automatic for towing anyway?

3. I have had my heart set on a 3023, which is 3 feet longer than your model. Is it your sense (or Rederick's/any one else's) that this will make much of a difference for what, as you note, is a ridiculously short wheel base, given the load being towed? Also, is there something inherently more stable about a shorter wheel base in snow? The stability you mention is nothing like the story of many others on this site, who profess a need for chains or outright abstinence in any amount of ice or snow.

4. The 3023 is pretty much the same dry weight as your model, but can theoretically take an additional 700lbs in weight. How do you think the Jeep would perform? (I'm really not thinking of much altitude driving at this time. Living near Washington, D.C., I'm contemplating trips to Florida and Maine/Quebec, but with a few trips per year into the very hilly parts of WVA as well for xcountry skiing).

5. I'm intriguted that your mileage INCREASED at higher speeds. I'm used to this with my Suburu AWD wagon, and tend to get best mileage at 75MPH zone, which seems to be "slow lane" speed around our Capitol Beltway these days anway. Two unrelated question on that:

* Why the better mileage? Were you at lower altitudes, or is there really an inverse relationship between speed and mileage in the 65MPH to 80 MPH range like there is with my car?
* Reading this site, (which my wife swears must be run by a cult, given my interest/its helpfulness , I'm aware of the 65MPH limit rating on TM tires. Did you realize this and know you could were exceeding the limit, or did you purchase other tires. It seems they do exist.

6. Do you have a standard factory towing package? If memory serves, they all come with it. You then presumably got the WDH seperately? Thanks to Russ, we know that the wiring might not be adjusted for the TM. Did you have the same problem?

Through the end of the month, Chrysler is offering its 0 percent financing so I'm checking this pretty aggressively. In the end though, the new Diesel's are as espensive as the XTerra and Ridgeline, (something like $27k), so I may just go with one of them or a used Toyota V8 anyway. My two kids will be happier that way although it seems the Liberty isn't too scrunched in the back.

This said, I really like the mileage, even if diesel remains a bit pricier than gasoline at the moment. In addition, by your account, the Deisel did better than we might expect with some of the gasoline V6s anyway. Your advise, as someone who has towed with "normal" towing vehicles is MUCH appreciated.

Thanks to all to contributed to this thread. It and the entire site are great!

Todd Perry

Todd, I'll try my best to answer your questions. Before I get into specifics here is soem other info. I too researched the deisel a lot before buying. Since it is relatively new I normally wiat for a few years for the bugs to be wokred out but I was wanting to get a hybird and didn't want to pay the high prices, whne I read about the liberty I was interested. There is a jeep forum that has a liberty section that you can get more info from. We love it. If you drive 60-65 MPH roads (we don't have many out here) you can get 26-28 MPG. Concerning the 3023 I'd research it some more. With the short wheel base the onger the trailer the more potential probelms you might encounter going downhill around corners. Rockymountainray has some posts on trailer length and wheelbase of TVs and has towed with the Cherokee which has close to the same wheel bse as the liberty.
Specific answers to your questions above:
#1. I assume you mean the manual button on the electronic brake controller. There are many different types of brake controllers( see rockymntnray's past post in the brake controller section of this forum. these buttons allow you to brake the trailer, should the controller not give you enough braking power in certain situations. Primarily when you are going downhill around sharp bends and the trailer starts to push your end of your
TV around. There are a few posts on this subject in this forum.
#2 Yes we have an automatic. One of the good things with a diesel is you get more braking power from your engine. My wife drives almost 3,000 feet down in elevation every day to work. Most of the drop is around hairpin turns in a two mile stretch. She drops it from drive into 2nd and doesn't have to brake much. There is another lowwer gear where you can crawl at 10-15 mph. Also with the diesel it seems to stay in overdrive more as the inceased torgue at low RPMs doesn't seem to make the liberty have to shift into a lower gear as much.
#3- Since the 2072 is slightly longer than the rule of thumb for a trailer based upon info provided in the forum for the trailer length limit for the TV's wheelbases, I would not go any longer than the 2072 personally. The jeep liberty manual says to limit trailer length to 25 feet though but I don't trust such a statement without looking into all the variables such as the type of trailer and how it is loaded. There are many different tow calculations you can make that include length of trailer measured from ball to axle, tongue weights, etc. You can find them in this forum and other trailer forums on towing. I don't know much about how wheel base of your TV will affect control on snow except the same concern mentioned in #1 which means you have to be very careful to brake before the turns going down hill. When you get too long a trailer you reportedly feel like your driving on balloon wheels or your on ice in some turns. I also own an F150 and know for sure that I'd have to worry less if I was towing with that in the snow and ice. Many others might be able to provide you with info on this.
#4 - as far as power you can definitely pull much more that the 2720sl. In fact in other forums I've read that Jeep limited the towing rating of 5,000 lbs mainly because if they put it higher it would encourage people to tow heavier trailers that were longer. Again, the short wheel base seems to be the big limiting factor. I've read many people towing heavier boats with no weight distributing hitches etc. but it was to tow only two miles to a lake on flat ground and situations like that.
#5a) On gas mileage verses speed, I think thas certain engines have a zone where you might get the same gas mileage or even alittle better in you go
60 instead of 55 for example. With the liberty I do know for sure that once we get up to highway speeds my gas mileage does drop the faster I go with and without the trailer. When I was traveling at 65 I would be getting about .5 MPG better than traveling at 70. Note that I reported that I got lower gas mileage driving at the very slow speeds of 25-35 when I was in the snow storm. I was at lower elevations and less mountianous terrain as I was only two hours from home traveling on the plains when the big storm hit. I think it was because of the snow and slush that is harder to drive through .....much like when you drive with less air in your tires. Maybe with a deisel you have to get up to a crusing speed for the best mileage, I don't know much about this so maybe others who drive deisels can help you out with this.
#5b) I'm ashamed, as others have also noted in this forum, that yes..... I did read in here that you are to limit your speed to 65. I tried keeping it at this but since the speed limits out here are 80 and we're conditioned to these speeds, it's hard. I found that the diesel pulled so well that it was hard for me to keep it down. (Probably only had pedal down 1/4 of the way on the flats.) I tried to keep it at 70 for the most part. Since I didn't hit the plains until late and it was raining and snowing, I was not able to use the speed control.
6) Yes I got the tow package and it is standard, if memory serves me right, on diesels only. If ordering a gas liberty you'd have to ask for the towing package. Concerning the wiring. I had them run a whole new set of wires back to the seven pin plub from the controller and they used 12 gage. The rv dealer didn't have a wiring diagram for a liberty to splice into the ones under the dash and manual doesn't explain either, so to be safe we did it that way.
I was going to have my jeep dealer do it but ran out of time before I left. When I was talking to service they said that jeep didn't put in a wiring harness for brake controllers because didn't expect people to be towing trailers this light that had electronic brakes.

Concerning the mph reports on the diesel. Not sure which you have been reading but in the jeep forums most people have been reporting anywhere from 24-28 MPG on the highway. I couldn't find any towing mileage so don't know how it compares to others.

Good luck with your choice in finding the right TV for you!