Propane Tanks

I'm new to TM but not to RVing. Please tell me that I'm missing an obvious way to remove an empty tank for filling. The idiot who designed this for the 2004 TM (3124KS) can't have any time camping in the unit. Not only are the heads of the bolts painted over and unable to be grabbed by a wrench but the two back ones are so hard to get to it defies logic. Nobody thought of a quick release mounting with locable brackets? We're going to stop by the factory this summer. I hope they've got a good Plan B for this. If anyone has a solution I'd like to hear about it.

I realize our 1998 2619 may be different that your unit, but our dual tanks were located on the A-frame tongue, with the regulator between them. The regulator, and both bottles were secured by a long bolt that went into the mounting bracket on the A-frame, with a large wing nut at the top holding a bracket that secured both tanks and the regulator. Just spin the large wing nut off and it all comes apart so you can remove one or both tanks.

How does the 2004 3124KS differ from what I've described?

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=Paul_Heuvelhorst link=board=22;threadid=1778;start=msg12550#msg1255 0 date=1079931028]
I realize our 1998 2619 may be different that your unit, but our dual tanks were located on the A-frame tongue, with the regulator between them. The regulator, and both bottles were secured by a long bolt that went into the mounting bracket on the A-frame, with a large wing nut at the top holding a bracket that secured both tanks and the regulator. Just spin the large wing nut off and it all comes apart so you can remove one or both tanks.

How does the 2004 3124KS differ from what I've described?
[/quote]

Paul...

Mr. Camper's 3124KS tanks are the special horizontal mount tanks, not the easy-to-deal-with vertical mount tanks like those on your 2619, or the regular 2720 and 3023 (all models with a front bed). I have the same horizontal tanks on my 2720SL; I think they're used on all the front slide models including the 3326. IIRC, TM started using these horizontal tanks on the slide models beginning in '02 (But they've yet to remove the cutout in the slides that was needed when they used the vertical tanks on the slide models. :)

Mr. Camper has a very legitimate gripe: These horizontal tanks are bolted partly below the A-frame on a special bracket using 3 short and difficult to reach bolts on each tank...one in front under the valve area and two in back which are mostly hidden by the tank itself. It takes two wrenches on each bolt (none have wing nuts) and a fair bit of contortioning to remove or tighten any of these bolts...and the front shell has to be raised at least a couple of inches before either tank can be removed for filling. Even with practice it usually takes around 10 minutes to unbolt and remove both tanks...and that's after the hoses are disconnected. All in all, a royal PITA to deal with any time the tanks need to be refilled but one I willing undergo to have the front slide living room area.

[quote author=Mr. Camper link=board=22;threadid=1778;start=msg12544#msg1254 4 date=1079921622]
I'm new to TM but not to RVing. Please tell me that I'm missing an obvious way to remove an empty tank for filling. The idiot who designed this for the 2004 TM (3124KS) can't have any time camping in the unit. Not only are the heads of the bolts painted over and unable to be grabbed by a wrench but the two back ones are so hard to get to it defies logic. Nobody thought of a quick release mounting with locable brackets? We're going to stop by the factory this summer. I hope they've got a good Plan B for this. If anyone has a solution I'd like to hear about it.
[/quote]

Hi Mr Camper! Welcome to our forum. As you may have gathered in my reply to Paul, I "feel your pain" when it comes to dealing with the horizontal tanks on a front slide TrailManor such as your 3124KS or my 2720SL. Fortunately my bolts hadn't been painted over so I am able to use wrenches on them...you'll probably have to use a clamp on plier or similar tool to initially get your bolts out. They are a common size and aren't greatly stressed so you can readily replace any you bugger up with a normal hardware store bolt of the same size. And no, to the best of my knowledge, there isn't a quick release system/bracket for these bolts. If you do happen to obtain a better system when you visit the factory though, please do let us know. In the meantime, just do whatever it takes to remove your painted over bolts and replace them with hardware store bolts. I can say that with a bit of practice, you'll be able to get each tank off or on in about 3 to 5 minutes...not great by any means but it becomes bearable.

[Bill]

Ray and Mr. Camper -

Yes, it is inconvenient, but on my 2720SL it is nowhere near that hard.

First - yes, it is necessary to get the paint off the nuts. Otherwise a wrench will never grip reliably.

Second - on my TM, the retaining bolts are pushed upward through the holes in the mounting frame, and the heads are SPOT WELDED to the bottom of the frame. Thus the bolts will not come out, they won't turn, and no wrench is needed on the bolt head. This means you can work entirely from the top - no need to try to get under anything. If this description doesn't make sense, I will try to take a pic - and if your bolts aren't welded in place, have someone do it!

I always figured that the easiest way to handle the bolting and unbolting would be to keep a 9/16" socket wrench with a long extender handy. But I never got that organized, so I just tucked an open-end wrench behind the power cable on the inner surface of the roadside A-frame. It rides there just fine, is handy when I need it, and has never come off in thousands of miles of travel. When the time comes, I pull out the wrench, reach down behind the tank, and turn. No problem!

And yes, the front shell has to be raised, at least a bit. It's easier if the shell is all the way up and the slider is pushed in, which of course is the situation as I am breaking camp. I try to remember to "check propane" as part of my daily activity list. If one tank runs out, I have quite a bit of time to replenish it while running on the second tank. Then, as part of breaking camp, I remove the empty tank. If I can fill it at the campground, I do so, and replace it before closing the TM. Otherwise, I carry the empty home, fill it when I can, set it on the garage floor so it is ready, and bolt it back in place as I am preparing for the next trip.

HTH

Bill

[G-V_Driver]

I made it painless by simply pulling the unit up to the propane refill station and filling them on the trailer. Don't know if that's legal, but so far the propane dealers don't seem to think it's a big deal. I disconnect one of the safety chains and lay it on the ground to prevent static discharge (don't know if it's necessary but we do it on the airplanes) before starting the refill process. I just turn off the ignition and saunter away to what seems like a safe distance and watch the show.

I carry one spare bottle in the back for various propane-fired accessories, and for unforeseen exhaustion of the tongue-mounted bottles. So far, so good.

There's an old story about the guy who bailed out of the airplane and couldn't get the chute to deploy. After many failed attempts and and about a thousand feet above ground and falling at terminal velocity (no pun intended) he spied another fellow going up at about the same rate he was going down. "Hey, do you know anything about parachutes?" he yelled.

The response was "No, do you know anything about propane hot-water heaters?"

I am not trying to be a WA but how do they know when a bottle is full. Remember I live in a very backward small town in OK, and they weigh the bottles herem (filling them while they are on the scales). When they reach a total of 38 lbs they stop. G_V How do the guys from the big towns in OK do it? Have they invented gages for this?

Good morning all,

[quote author=G-V_Driver link=board=22;threadid=1778;start=msg12575#msg1257 5 date=1079989990]
I made it painless by simply pulling the unit up to the propane refill station and filling them on the trailer. Don't know if that's legal, but so far the propane dealers don't seem to think it's a big deal.


[/quote]

Should not be a problem. This is how they fill motorhomes.

I am not sure about the new horizontal OPD bottles, which are designed to close at the 80 % level, but the older one's, which I have on our TM, have a small valve you open up during filling. When the vapor changes to liquid the bottle is filled to 80 %. That is how mine were filled when I took them in last time.

I believe, but not sure, even the older BBQ style tanks were equipped with this feature, although the 80 % valve was integrated into the main valve body on the side.

Dan

[G-V_Driver]

Last time I filled was in Colbert, OK. Hard to find a smaller town than that. He filled the tanks and I gave him the money. That's about all I know about the transaction, except I did see some gauges on the fill-up device that gave the gallonage that somehow got translated into the amount of money they wanted.

It was painless and simple, and I intend to do it every time I can, especially now that Dancer says it is legit. On that subject, you might want to consider how you set the selector/transfer valve on the tanks. If you set it so both tanks empty at the same time, and/or if you leave the valve on both tanks open (I think some of the systems are slightly different) you can run out of propane and have no reserve. If you only use one tank at a time, you always have one full tank and can therefore plan the fill-up.

It might mean a trip outside in the middle of the night and then purging the lines, but at least you know you've got a full tank to use.

For automatic operation the current vertical mounted models require both bottles to be open and an indicator points to the one feeding the system. When that bottle is empty it automatically changes over to the full bottle and there will be no interuption however the indicator shows you have an empty bottle in the system. Simply close the valve on it remove the bottle and have it refilled or replace it with a full bottle and open the valve on that bottle.

[Bill]

[quote author=G-V_Driver link=board=22;threadid=1778;start=msg12575#msg1257 5 date=1079989990]I made it painless by simply pulling the unit up to the propane refill station and filling them on the trailer. Don't know if that's legal, but so far the propane dealers don't seem to think it's a big deal.[/quote]

You're making me a little nervous, G_V. Not a lot, but a little. You have horizontal tanks, right? The horizontal tanks are clearly labelled "Must be filled in the vertical position". The reason for this is that the Overfill Prevention Device (OPD) is a simple float valve, and doesn't work unless the tank is upright. By filling them in the horizontal position, you are defeating the OPD, and it is possible to overfill the tank.

Now, if you fill up at a bulk propane supplier, and the job is done by an experienced propane tech, he probably knows how to fill to the correct level anyway - after all, OPD is only a couple years old, but propane tanks have been correctly filled for decades. But if you drive into the local gas station - the one with the big white propane tank over on the side of the lot - and a 16-year old kid comes out to help you, you gotta remember that the kid has been taught to rely on the OPD. He doesn't know anything else. And if it doesn't work ...

Well, as I say, I'm nervous. I have scanned the discussions in many of the camping and RV forums, and there is a lot of bad information floating around. Be careful before trusting any of it. A source of guaranteed-good information is the National Propane Gas Association, www.npga.org.

BTW, motor home tanks are non-removable ("non-portable", in the parlance of the trade), and so are designed to be filled in the horizontal position. Their fill ports and valving are not the same as the "portable" tanks on our TM's.

And finally, the old procedure of filling the tank until the vapor coming out of the vent port turns to liquid may not work on new tanks, either.

Bill