The Thetford toilet: a virtual tour and fixing it for good

[ShrimpBurrito]

I had to take out the toilet AGAIN recently because we had a small leak after traveling down a rough road. Since there seems to be so much interest in the toilet, and far fewer folks that are interested in taking it apart, I decided to take some pictures of the guts since I had it cleaned up. I let the toilet sit outside to dry out after I washed it, so the dirt you may see on the toilet is actually ash from all the fires we've been having out here in LA. That's also why the pics have sort of a yellow tint to them.

Note that the thing that looks like a plastic bag is the infamous Vinyl Skirt.

I have 3 major problems with the Thetford Electra Magic 80 toilet that annoy us every time we camp, the first 2 being the main problems:

1) bits of toilet paper, and occasionally solid waste, is recirculated into the bowl when flushing

2) we often have difficulty flushing solids, as they get caught in the vinyl skirt

3) there are 6 gallons of solid waste sitting above your floor, which can make for a nasty leak brought on by say, a rough road

Does any one else feel this way or encounter these problems?

I have called Thetford on 2 occasions, the last being just this morning, and the response is something to the effect of, "We've never heard of these problems before. I take 120 calls a day, every day, and this is the first I've heard of it." I asked to speak to a design engineer or someone perhaps with a bit more technical knowledge. Denied. "Engineers don't speak to customers", she replied tersely. Absolutely ZERO interest in solving the issues, and you could tell by the tone in her voice (on both instances, months apart) that she would much rather be doing something other than talking to me.

I don't like to bad mouth anyone, but between my personal experiences and what I've read online (like making the vinyl skirt available only through a ~$150 kit), they are not particularly interested in customer service. What a shame.

I feel #1 is a direct result of the filter screen not being attached to the bottom of the toilet. When you bump down the road, the screen goes up, and the solids slide underneath. That not only allows the solids to be recirculated, but it prevents the solids from being drained, as the drain hole is in the center of where the filter screen sits. I know this because when I have taken the toilet apart, I see bits of toilet paper, and occasionally bits of solid waste, on the bottom of the toilet OUTSIDE the filter screen. And time I found some nasty brown maggots. Maybe I should take pictures and email them to Thetford. The bowl sits in the screen, however, and is supposed to prevent the screen from going up. That's why the screen is cut on a slope at the top -- as you can see, the front of the bowl does not extend down as far as the back of the bowl.

I thought perhaps I would solve this problem by attaching the filter screen to the bottom of the toilet (not the bowl), but I'm not sure how to do it. I was thinking of using a silicone adhesive, like 3M 4200, but according to the MSDS sheet, Aquachem contains formaldehyde and methanol. I don't think the formaldehyde would be anything, but the methanol might dissolve the adhesive. I know from experience that JB Weld gets eaten up. Maybe RTV sealant?

#2 is a problem that I think can only be resolved by replacing the vinyl skirt with something else. I'm short on ideas here, as I can only think of something like a flap door, like found in aircraft toilets, but I'm not sure how to make one. I think it has to be spring loaded, perhaps attached with a zip tie.

#3 is only solved with a separate holding tank. I measured the space by the drain valve behind the tire.....that's the only possible place I see where a holding tank could fit, and it's boxed in by 3 non-movable sides: 2 frame members and the box for the shower plumbing. The space is 22 x 13 x 5, which comes out to 6.2 gallons. That means every inch of that space has to be utilized to hold a full toilet load, and I didn't find a tank with those dimensions through a brief search. The main problem is finding a tank with one side that's only 5 inches.

Any thoughts or comments?

Dave

[Wavery]

Dave,

Nice legs......

I think that the best way to secure the basket would be to epoxy 4 pieces of plastic (about 1/2" thick) to the bottom of the toilet tank, just inside or outside of the basket perimeter (or both). Then, I would screw clips into those plastic pieces. I'd suggest making the pieces out of something round so that pieces of waste don't get trapped in corners.

Check to find out what kind of plastic the tank is made of. I believe that epoxy would work well on it. Definitely do not use any urethane or silicone based sealer or glues. If it is made of PVC, use PVC glue. That will weld the pieces in place. If it is made out of polyethylene, it cannot be glued.....don't even bother trying. You would have to take it somewhere that has a plastic welder. Make your pieces out of polyethylene and have them weld them in place with polyethylene welding rod.

Actually, I think that basket design "Stinks". I think that I would have designed the system to partition off the pump. The same screen method could be used but I would have molded in a slot for a flat screen to side down from the top and partition off the back 3" of the tank where the pump is. Having that basket sitting loose in there seems like a recipe for having solid waste trapped on the wrong side of the basket and not being evacuated when the system is dumped.

As for a trap door, you can get spring loaded doors at Home Depot. They make them for microwave oven exhaust fans and all sorts of other things.. I may try this the next time that I install a new microwave oven in one of my apts. I usually throw away that vent panel that comes with it. The thing to remember about putting a spring loaded door on there is that it can only seal tight enough to keep waste from splashing out when towing. If you make it air tight (Or even close) you will have to vent the toilet some other way.

If you really want to add a holding tank, you may want to consider having one built. If you can find a steel fabricator, it would be easy to cut pieces of steel the exact size required for a top, bottom and whatever sides that you need to close in that area in your frame, making it a sealed tank. It's just a matter of designing what you want and coming up with the fittings need to attach to the tank. BTW....you could have the tank extend a few inches below the frame and probably increase the capacity to about 8 gallons. I would suggest having a 12" opening port in the bottom of the tank. That would allow you to have access for sealing the steel before using the tank also for cleaning and servicing.

They do that on steel boats all the time. The steel hull and framework make up the bottom and sides of the tank. They just close it in by welding on additional plates. It's strong, relatively light (because you would use part of your existing frame as part of the tank) and it is easily sealed. It would also be strong enough to endure tire blow-out damage.

Myself, I'm quite happy with our toilet. It gave the prior owner no grief (for 10 years) and it has serviced us well for the last 6 camp-outs.

Wayne

Dave,
Just bought our 2006 2720SL. The dealer we bought from (RiversRV in Florida) allowed us to camp for three days for free on their lot to "shake it down". We noticed a problem with the vinyl skirt "catching" waste on one side. I worked with the skirt smoothing out the edges and flushing improved. I called Thetford this morning and they are sending me a new skirt under warranty since my camper is less than three years old (by two months). If I'd been out of warranty they were going to charge me $19.95 plus shipping. Thanks for providing the pictures of your replacement so now I have some idea of what to expect. Again, thanks for your input. Roy

>...I think that I would have designed the system to partition off the pump...

I think the additional purpose of the basket is to make sure all the solids evacuate out the drain vent.

If you partition off the pump and leave the basket out then solids could be anywhere in the tank. This would certainly keep solids from being pumped around.

I think getting the basket bettered secured would payoff in the long run. When it comes time to dump the toilet, all the solids are near the drain vent. When you open the drain vent the rest of the blue water will flush the solids out the drain vent.

So the trick here is to find a bonding agent that will secure to the tank and and is inert to tank chemicals.

On the vinyl skirt, you have to careful what materials you use to keep the flapper closed. A lot of those common vent flapper components will react with the chemicals in the toilet. I would not expect a vent hood component to last very long at all.

Dave - I won't comment about your legs but it is definitely time to break down and replace those deck shoes!

This is pretty basic stuff (and not necessarily the most pleasant topic) but I have a few thoughts to share based on 4 years of TM ownership and 30+ years of sailboat ownership and chartering. On sailboats holding tank capacity is even more of a problem than with the TM. When chartering a sailboat the service always does a "boat show" to acquaint you with the systems. They suggest putting a few squares of TP in the head before use to make solids flush more easily. They also suggest flushing twice, once to remove the waste and the second to dispose of TP. Both of these work equally well in the TM. Solid waste or TP does tend to hang up at the exit from the bowl and "pulsing" the button sometimes disposes of that blockage better than a protracted flush. It goes without saying that only RV or Marine TP should be used.

Lastly, you asked about experience with the Thetford, and except for the little problem set forth above, and one incident of splashing when the unit was almost full and we traveled about 30 miles down a rough gravel road, we have no complaints about the Thetford. We follow the forum advice about using both one Potty Toddy tablet and the Thetford chemical containing formaldehyde and have no odor problems. Thanks for posting the photos - I never quite realized how the unit worked until I viewed them. - camp2canoe

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by camp2canoe

Dave - I won't comment about your legs but it is definitely time to break down and replace those deck shoes!

This is pretty basic stuff (and not necessarily the most pleasant topic) but I have a few thoughts to share based on 4 years of TM ownership and 30+ years of sailboat ownership and chartering. On sailboats holding tank capacity is even more of a problem than with the TM. When chartering a sailboat the service always does a "boat show" to acquaint you with the systems. They suggest putting a few squares of TP in the head before use to make solids flush more easily. They also suggest flushing twice, once to remove the waste and the second to dispose of TP. Both of these work equally well in the TM. Solid waste or TP does tend to hang up at the exit from the bowl and "pulsing" the button sometimes disposes of that blockage better than a protracted flush. It goes without saying that only RV or Marine TP should be used.

Lastly, you asked about experience with the Thetford, and except for the little problem set forth above, and one incident of splashing when the unit was almost full and we traveled about 30 miles down a rough gravel road, we have no complaints about the Thetford. We follow the forum advice about using both one Potty Toddy tablet and the Thetford chemical containing formaldehyde and have no odor problems. Thanks for posting the photos - I never quite realized how the unit worked until I viewed them. - camp2canoe

I lived on my sailboat for 14 years. SOP on boats is to have a separate container (with a sealed lid) for toilet paper to be placed in. That keeps the paper out of the holding tank. The same could be done in the TM toilet. However, I have not initiated that because we haven't had a problem. For those that have a problem with their toilet, you could make that an option.

One other thing that I wanted to mention. I was down in the camper yesterday and I checked our toilet (this thread was on my mind). Ours does not have that little plastic baggy thingy on it. I'm not sure what that is meant to accomplish but our toilet works fine without it. I have never towed the trailer with the toilet full, that may be what that is supposed to be there for. I don't think that it would be very effective in odor control. I think if someone has an odor problem it can be cured with chemicals.

Thanks again for the pics. I actually printed them and put the pictures in my manual.

[Bill]

Wayne -

I'm not sure he meant to vent it below the waterline. That would be quite trick. I think he meant that an open-to-the-air vent, either on deck on in the side of the hull (well above the waterline), would form a Venturi when the boat is moving. Actually, don't a lot of boats have an air intake scoop facing forward, to ram air into the interior compartments or spaces, and another similar scoop facing backward to exhaust interior air?

Anyway, long ago, two of our members built simple vents for their toilets. In each case, they took advantage of the round access hatch in the top of the toilet, opposite (and the same size) as the gauge opening. A piece of PVC pipe was fitted into the opening, and an elbow on the pipe took the pipe through the wall. It has been a long time, but I seem to recall that one of them ended the whole process there, with an open-ended pipe (and some trim) coming through the wall, which made a good venturi when moving. The other guy went a bit further and added a small 12-volt fan to the system, to make it a power vent. Both had some kind of closure on the outside.

I can find only one of the threads. If anyone finds the other, please post a link.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=1012

Bill

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Bill

Wayne -

I'm not sure he meant to vent it below the waterline. That would be quite trick. I think he meant that an open-to-the-air vent, either on deck on in the side of the hull (well above the waterline), would form a Venturi when the boat is moving. Actually, don't a lot of boats have an air intake scoop facing forward, to ram air into the interior compartments or spaces, and another similar scoop facing backward to exhaust interior air?

Anyway, long ago, two of our members built simple vents for their toilets. In each case, they took advantage of the round access hatch in the top of the toilet, opposite (and the same size) as the gauge opening. A piece of PVC pipe was fitted into the opening, and an elbow on the pipe took the pipe through the wall. It has been a long time, but I seem to recall that one of them ended the whole process there, with an open-ended pipe (and some trim) coming through the wall, which made a good venturi when moving. The other guy went a bit further and added a small 12-volt fan to the system, to make it a power vent. Both had some kind of closure on the outside.

I can find only one of the threads. If anyone finds the other, please post a link.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=1012

Bill

I'm sure that it is easy to vent it to the outside. I just don't see the point as the toilet is so open on the inside. Depending on wind direction, it could actually work in reverse.

I still feel that if someone is experiencing odor issues, they may want to try a different chemical. We have been successful with Aqua-Chem. We have experienced no odor at all.

Now.....having said that, we live in SoCal where the humidity is low and odors are not carried as easily has high humidity areas. Maybe that is the problem for some, I don't know.

Wayne

We have had our TM since 2005. The most likely reason we do not experience your problems is because we never have solid waste in the TM. We do have a modest amount of toilet paper.

We are always camped in a campground with at least flush toilets. The TM toilet is only sued in the middle of the night.

I suspect that the vast majority of TM owners are in a similar situation. Therefore, our(my) needs and usage pattern is not the same as yours.

You have a legitimate complaint, but I don't think it is as broad of an issue as you might think that it is.

Here is the link to 1 of the toilet vent installations.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=3395

Chap