Major Toilet Problem Caused by TM, Not Thetford

[Virginia Deacon]

Finally, I was able to determine the root cause of the Thetford recirculating toilet not draining properly! See my other Plumbing posts for some symptoms and my previous thoughts on this problem.

Since removing the toilet and ordering a new gasket from Thetford, I decided to go back into the TM and replace what I thought was a wax seal used to seat the toilet at the factory, just like permanent toilets at home.

In fact, I took the gasket and sealing material to our local RV dealer and service center. Once the parts man showed me what a new gasket should look like, it didn't take either of us long to figure out what the problem was. It turned out that the "seal" was - in fact - nearly a half tube of silicone that the factory applied around the toilet seal, when installing the toilet during manufacturing. See attached photos. The photo of the existing gasket with silicone around the sides and top of the gasket shows a factory application of silicone that was over six inches across and an inch deep - on top of the original gasket. One of the photos shows that a piece of this application broke off the top of the gasket, when I pulled the silicone off the top and out of the gasket.

The comparison between a new gasket and my existing gasket shows how - when the toilet was seated in place at the factory - a large glob of the silicone filled the black water drain pipe hole, leaving a 1-inch by 1.25-inch rectangular hole where there was supposed to be a 3-inch diameter circular hole. THAT explains why I have had trouble with the toilet draining when I opened the toilet drain valve. With the drain opening being less than 25% of what it is supposed to be, solids accumulated and plugged up the top of the black water pipe. The fact that I have removed the old, silicon-covered gasket and am in the process of installing a new gasket means there should be no such problems in the future - that's the GOOD news.

The BAD news is that those of you who have the same problems with toilet draining are going to have to remove the toilet in order to see if the factory created the same problem in your TrailManor. I repeat - the problem is not a Thetford problem, it is a TrailManor installation problem. And, there is no other way I can think of to see if there's a glob of silicone plugging up the black water plumbing in your TrailManor than to pull up the toilet. Another bear of a problem is that, if there is silicon holding the toilet in place, it is VERY difficult to pull that toilet up. But, at least I've warned you and can encourage you that it CAN be done. Once the toilet has been removed, it should be evident whether the drain hole is wide open or significantly plugged with silicon, as mine was.

I am very thankful that I "bit the bullet" and decided to pull the toilet and see if I could find out why it wasn't draining properly. Now, I can rest easy and enjoy our camping, without wondering whether the toilet is going to work properly. That's why I encourage you to do the same.

Footnote: Our 2006 TrailManor 2720SL was manufactured in September of 2005, and we love it!

Happy Camping!

Originally Posted by Virginia Deacon

The BAD news is that those of you who have the same problems with toilet draining are going to have to remove the toilet in order to see if the factory created the same problem in your TrailManor. I repeat - the problem is not a Thetford problem, it is a TrailManor installation problem. And, there is no other way I can think of to see if there's a glob of silicone plugging up the black water plumbing in your TrailManor than to pull up the toilet.

It might be possible to examine the bottom of the toilet by running a camera up the drain. I think that some plumbing companies are set up to do a camera inspection.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the heads up. I doubt that I have this problem as when I pull the outside valve there is the normal whoosh. Anyone with a whimper instead of t\a whoosh should perhaps be suspicious.

[Virginia Deacon]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

It might be possible to examine the bottom of the toilet by running a camera up the drain. I think that some plumbing companies are set up to do a camera inspection.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the heads up. I doubt that I have this problem as when I pull the outside valve there is the normal whoosh. Anyone with a whimper instead of t\a whoosh should perhaps be suspicious.

I agree with everything you say. I didn't suggest the plumbing company with a camera, because - last time our pipes were plugged - the plumber said "It's $250 for us to get the camera out." However, if one is on good terms with a friend or relative who's a plumber - that would be the easy way to find out what the story is on TM toilet!

Happy Trails!

[commodor47]

Virginia,

Glad you were finally able to resolve the problem with the Thetford . . . which turned out to be an installation rather than a product issue. And thanks for posting the pictures as that always makes it easier to understand descriptive dialogue.

Question? When you re-installed the toilet, did you use any silicone? I can't help wondering if the silicon application is part of the normal installation process. Did any installation instructions come with the replacement gasket? Or did the RV parts person offer any suggestions about installing the new gasket?

[Speckul8r]

Man, I hope you send these pics to the boss at TM. If I was in his shoes, I'd be flippin' out!!

[Virginia Deacon]

The replacement gasket is being sent from Thetford; the gasket in the photos is the gasket our local RV dealer uses. There is a difference in part numbers, although we expect the gasket from Thetford to be the same shape as the one in the photos.

I haven't decided whether to use silicone on the replacement gasket, but will see if there are any instructions with it. Silicone REALLY makes the toilet stick to the floor, so I'm reluctant to use very much if any - certainly not the amount shown in the pictures I posted.

I've notified Ed Lytle at TrailManor and am waiting for a response/recommendation from him. I know he will be concerned and involved in resolving this issue, because he has been very responsive and responsible in the past.

I intend to post a followup, once I've completed the repair.

I just took removed my Thetford yesterday to take a look at a Slide-EZ valve problem. There was no silicone used, just the gasket, and the toilet was always leak free.

-Paul

I had to replace my Thetford valve over the winter and saw a lot of silicone on the EZ slider valve itself, but not nearly as much as you had on your floor gasket. Because the installation manual said nothing about using silicone I decided not to reapply it, and things have been fine for six months.

My silicone was not the cause of the toilet problem, by the way - it was a valve gasket slippage.

[Virginia Deacon]

Here are the recent messages between me and the TrailManor factory, regarding improper installation of the Thetford Recirculating Toilet on our 2006 2720SL:

(September 11, 2006)
Good morning Paul,

I am sorry for not responding to your previous email. I did forward it to our engineers and our production personnel for the review and comment. I also researched if you camper may have had work done at the dealer prior to delivery to you. We have found none to this date. There may be a small amount of silicone used to hold the gasket in place for installation but there is no reason for the amount that is shown in your pictures. We have other toilets removed for various reasons but have never encountered this type of problem. We believe this is an isolated case that may have been done unintentionally or it could have be malicious.

We do appreciative you bringing this problem to our attention. Please contact me at 800 707-7061 and we can discuss this in further details.

Ed Lytle
TrailManor Inc.
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My previous post to Ed:
(September 9, 2006)
Hi, Ed!

I haven't heard any more from you since Aug. 30. Did you get the e-mail from me with the pictures of the toilet gasket problem?

I got a replacement gasket for the bottom of the toilet from Thetford last week. Thoroughly cleaned the top of the blackwater pipe and flange, then re-installed the toilet. Didn't use any silicone or other sealant between toilet gasket and floor hardware, since this is what caused all the previous problems.

Pressure-tested the connection yesterday, by filling the toilet until FULL and pulling slide valve on bottom of toilet, leaving outside, blackwater drain valve closed. No leaks. Went outside and opened the blackwater drain valve. Toilet drain in about three seconds! No leaks.

I believe I have resolved the problem created by improper installation at the TrailManor factory, described in previous messages. We will be attending the Appalachin TrainManor Owners rally in Asheville, NC next week and are looking forward to another TrailManor adventure!

I had told TrailManor Owners Forum folks who contacted me that I would let them know what action TrailManor factory had taken regarding the problem I was having and which may also be a problem for other TM owners. Your response would be appreciated, so I can close out my comments on the TM Owners Forum. Over 200 people have viewed the postings on this topic, by me and other folks.

Have a great week!
+++++++++++

Closeout remarks: I am satisfied with the outcome and with Ed's coordinating the review at the factory. Now, it's time to go camping again!

Happy Trails!

(I know, old thread, but I thought I'd add my comments rather than open a new one)

Well, as for it being an isolated problem, maybe mine wasn't quite to the degree yours was, but I removed the toilet to fix the valve today - and, sure enough, there was at least 1/2 a tube of silicon there, some blocking part of the drain plumbing, plenty just gluing it to the floor. Oh, and no locator disk either. I think someone thought "Tons of silicon will be quicker than using the locator disk and having to measure to place it properly."

Mine is a 2007. Definitely not an "isolated" problem.

I did not use any silicon or sealant to replace things. We'll see how things hold up.

For the locator disk, i just cut out a round piece from a sheet of plywood and screwed that round plywood disk to the floor, so it fit inside one of the legs. I wouldn't order this from Thetford - it's literally nothing that a round disk cut from a piece of plywood or plastic isn't. It would be like ordering a washer or bolt from Thetford.