Off-Topic Doesn't Belong on This Forum

[Virginia Deacon]

I joined this forum and have continued to use it, because it is TrailManor-specific. By that, I mean that the forum content has been FOR TrailManor owners, FROM TrailManor owners, and ABOUT TrailManor issues. I believe that is also why prospective buyers come to this forum - it is TrailManor-specific.

IMHO, "diversity" (whatever that means) and "inclusiveness" (ditto) and "political correctness" (ditto), etc. can - and should be - found elsewhere. VOTING to permit ANY off-topic discussion is foolishness. Thank you, moderators, for keeping us and the forum ON TOPIC. Don't quit, now; if you do, so will I (but I hope that's not necessary).

I agree 100% with Virginia. Keep it TM or rename the Forum!

One of the things I enjoy about the TM Forum is that I can get away from political discussions and other sorts of discussions which would be considered off-topic here. I read this and participate in the TrailManor Forum because it deals with issues relating to TMs. If this changes, I am gone!

Originally Posted by Virginia Deacon

I joined this forum and have continued to use it, because it is TrailManor-specific. By that, I mean that the forum content has been FOR TrailManor owners, FROM TrailManor owners, and ABOUT TrailManor issues. I believe that is also why prospective buyers come to this forum - it is TrailManor-specific.

IMHO, "diversity" (whatever that means) and "inclusiveness" (ditto) and "political correctness" (ditto), etc. can - and should be - found elsewhere. VOTING to permit ANY off-topic discussion is foolishness. Thank you, moderators, for keeping us and the forum ON TOPIC. Don't quit, now; if you do, so will I (but I hope that's not necessary).

The problem is the definition of what is off topic.

If I ask for a recommendation for a campground at Lake Tahoe is that off topic because it is a park review?

If birding is on topic, then why is geocaching in a TM off topic? I can't figure this one out at all. You can go birding in your own back yard, but serious geocaching requires a trailer.

What started this whole mess is several people were discussing using their GPS to participate in an outdoor activity commonly called geocaching. It was not obscene, political, or religious. Some people thought it was off topic, for reasons that I have never comprehended. I thought it was at least loosely connected to camping because most people that geocache do so on camping trips.

I skipped over reading it because I have no interest in that particular hobby. However, I do have an interest in other hobbies that are frequently associated with camping. Someone around here has written about using his TM to attend radio controlled helicopter rallyes. No one complained about that hobby.

What is so bad about geocaching that it is a banned topic, but other hobbies for campers is permissible. That makes no sense to me.

You made your points well, Wayne. When I think of TMing, I think of everything that goes along with the positive experience. Campground reviews, geocaching, bird watching, fishing, golf, or even frisbee tossing, can all be considered 'camping' activities. Granted, there are probably better forums for most of these than this one, but they are not out of place here (as long as the subject line is specific enough for folks not interested to skip it). What I do not expect to see are political discussions or religious discussions which at the very least can be very divisive and/or raise my blood pressure to unsafe levels.

[tucsoncarol]

You are right. Even if an off topic thread doesn't interest you you can ignore it and it will fade away after a few days. I was never so surprised as at the violently negative response to a simple off topic thread that Texas Camper had to geocaching. I don't understand, but maybe I was missing something. A review of Off Topic thread titles for the last several months listed quite a few that don't seem any more/less off topic than a hobby you can participate in while camping. As my hubby just said "well, maybe you better not tell them what I do while camping". We each enjoy our TM differently so maybe a little distance and perspective are needed now.

[Civil_War_Buff]

Just an observation.....I have been (and remain) a member of several forums for different things. My experience has been that when Moderators start acting as "moral police" and decide what is appropraite and what isn't, those forums are not long for this world. A header of "Off-Topic" as the tag line says "anything goes", should be just that. As long as personal attacks are not made, who is to decide what is and isn't appropriate? When Chris first started asking for "moderators" I immediately got nervous and voiced my concern at that time. I own the TrailManor Yahoo site, and I moderate it as well, if I find that a post is attacking someone, or is selling something (other than TM or camping related stuff), I remove the post and tell the poster why I did it. We have no spamming on that forum, and most people are very kind to each other.
I have no issue with the Off Topic category, if I don't want to look at something, I ignore it, but by definition the category allows for ANYTHING (within reason), but to have moderators lock threads for non specific reasons (other than they might not agree with the post) is censorship, and has no place here or on any other forum. The problem is there is NO training for moderators and Chris knows nothing about the people that moderate other than what he sees them post, so as they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

To keep this TM related, I like some of the 25th Anniversary upgrades that TM has made, good work!

I completely agree with Scott O. Obviously (or maybe not so obviously) "Anything Goes..." is not a literal statement. If you enjoy camping in the buff, it is not acceptable to post your fireside pictures here, even if you did stay there in your TM. I am being a little obtuse just to try and emphasize my point. IMO, Off Topic is the place for discussing activities enjoyed while camping. But I don't think that this forum is the place for political discussions, money management advice, religious views, or telling jokes. All of these things are WAY too polarizing, and people's interpretation of "appropriate" or "within reason" is too wide ranging. Are any of us here on this forum specifically to discuss any of these topics? I don't think so.

As for "censorship", I guess I am not convinced that a private forum like this comes with some sort of guarantee of free speech rights.

Moderators are necessary and valuable. The goal a forum like this is to appeal to as broad a membership as possible. The role of moderation is to enhance the forum towards achieving that goal. I think the TMO forum needs it.

[Virginia Deacon]

When moderators screen, delete, and lock out users, that is NOT censorship - it is managing this forum to keep it on topic. Put another way, if someone spray painted a message (tagged) your TrailManor, would you agree with them that they were just exercising their right to free speech and forego calling the police and prosecuting them!? Of course not!

"Off Topic, Anything Goes" is just another way of sanctioning unmoderated garbage on a moderated forum. I've left other camping forums, because they allowed obscenity, profanity, spam, etc. - in the name of "free speech."

Thank you, again, moderators, for the hard work and hard decisions you make each day to keep this forum on topic and family-oriented! And, thank you, Chris, for providing this moderated forum for TrailManor owners and their families.

Please don't confuse moderating with censorship.

At one time "The Wizard of Oz" was banned because it was poorly written.

Moderating keeps things within documented guidelines.

Censorship keeps things within whatever the censor wants. Each censor makes up their own rules as they see fit and it changes by the second.