Torsion/support bracket pulling floor down

[J_Norris]

I have a fantastic new-to-me 2003 3124KS with dozens of improvements made by the previous owner.

My one problem is that the bracket that supports the lift arm (the same bracket that supports the torsion bar) is pulling down the floor edge for both of the front supports of the front shell - or at least it’s pulling down the outer wooden frame of the floor, I’m not sure how the floor is constructed.
The effect is really pronounced on the street-side, where you can see the floor curving down as it gets to the edge; you can also see that the torsion/support bracket is rotated because of this pulling down at the edge of the floor (pictures attached). Also along this edge, the wall of the main box of the trailer has pulled away from the floor, leaving visible (from the inside) the screws that previously attached the wall to the floor.
FWIW, it still opens reasonably well, although this problem has caused issues with alignment including making the vinyl flaps stick up a bit on the street side and making the short square aluminum support difficult to get in on the front street side. The pockets at the upper ends of the lift arms appear to be in good condition, unlike what some other folks with shell problems have reported.

I’ve searched and found many other shell-related threads but can’t seem to find threads talking about this issue except a mention by Larryjb of someone having this problem (and a repair solution) here http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...=floor+bracket

And another thread mentioned golfing Debby having a solution for some problem that involved jacking up the floor, but I couldn’t find the thread that was referenced to see if it was the same issue.

I’d appreciate any suggestions for fixes or what to consider. I don’t know of a service center nearby but we do have a great welder who does lots of RV and boat trailer work, and I feel like there must be some way to add support to that bracket.

Thanks!

Jodi

[Larryjb]

Not the original thread I was referring to, but may be helpful:

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ht=torsion+bar

[tentcamper]

it looks like the bolts are pulling out and with the bolts threads it pulling down the trim along the edge. I'm not seeing seeing the floor being pulled down in the pictures???

If its the bolts pulling out there are several post about it and fixes

[Bill]

Does the floor bend down as seen from the inside? Or is the floor flat all the way to the edge?

Bill

[J_Norris]

You all are wonderful!

Answers in order:

Larry, yes, those symptoms sound very similar and the fact that the brackets are also still fixed tightly against the floor is helpful. Perhaps I can find out more about that fix from one of the three people involve (Jerry AKA Zekenspider, CustomRV, or Trailmanor)

Tentcamper – I added 2 more photos to try to deconfuse, and I forgot to mention that the brackets themselves are still firmly against the wood they are screwed into (see newly added photo). I couldn’t get a good photo of the wall screws detaching but I did add one showing the location where it’s happening.

Bill – I didn’t think of that. I just now checked, and the floor is flat, up to and including the metal trim that goes along the edge (visible in the interior picture), so it seems like the drop is isolated to just the frame that goes around the floor?

[Bill]

The outside rim of the floor platform is framed with wood (2x3's or 2x4's, maybe). Always was, still is. To the best of my knowledge, it is one of the few wood structural members still in the TM. At any rate, it appears that all of the lag screws that were anchored in the wood have pulled out. And everything that was held in place by the lag screws has deformed as a result.

Off the top of my head, I can think of three reasons this might happen.

1. The hold-down (center) latches were too tight. When properly adjusted, closing should be firm, but not wildly difficult. Some of our 120-pound female members are able to do it. You may have to step in the stirrups, but you don't have to jump up and down on them. Adjusting the latch bracket height is easy.

2. As described in another current thread, one or more of the black rubber bumper pads may be missing. There are two in the rear, atop the bumper, and two in front, atop the A-frame, and as the shells fully close and latch, the lower edge of the shells rests on these bumpers. If a pad is missing, the shell will bounce up and down as you travel, and this will pound the latches badly. Replacing the pads is easy.

In either case, you will have to replace the screws that pulled out, probably with screws that are identical to the originals except one size larger in diameter.

3. If the wood got wet at some point, and didn't dry out, the wood could have decomposed, and will no longer hold screws. The fix is not easy, and I don't know how to do it. Others may have ideas. Meanwhile, try pushing a screwdriver up into one of the holes and wiggling it around to see if there is any softness. Or peeking up into one of the screw holes, or examining the threads of one of the screws that has pulled out. Do you see any crumbs of rotted wood?

Let us know.

Bill

[J_Norris]

Thank Bill, that was very helpful and I learned more about what is and isn't going on.

I have looked, and here are some more photos to clarify what I’ll try to describe. The floor outer frame wood feels and looks very solid when poked with a screwdriver on both the front piece of the wood frame and the street side of the wood frame. Only the side piece of the wood frame has dropped, the front wood frame piece appears to be in the right place. The side frame piece still firmly abuts the front frame piece; the side frame piece has just dropped down a half inch or so. I can't see what's going on with the attachment between them.

I looked and poked up into the wall where the screws pulled out and that doesn’t appear to be wood at all, there’s a wood-colored piece like a veneer along the bottom surface of the wall, and inside of the pulled out hole it is pretty smooth and white; it’s like gypsum board, but less crumbly than I’d expect from gypsum board (I don’t know much about construction materials).

I’ve also attached pictures of the front bumpers; they are pretty worn and I should replace them. Strangely the curbside bumper is much worse than the street side, but the problem of drooping torsion brackets is less pronounced on the curbside.

I haven’t had trouble with the main latches on the street side, I can put a little downward pressure on the roof with one hand to get them latched. The curbside takes a light foot in the stirrup to close (I can’t tug the roof on that side because of the awning). The upper clip on the front street-side draw-latch has started to pull downward, possibly because its mate is on the torsion bracket. So when we drove the TM home we left that draw latch loose and had the other 3 draw latches on.

There is also a tear in the metal inside that I’ve included a picture of. I was wondering if the metal might have been torn by the couch slide being forced in at an angle and if that could have forced the wall detachment from the floor, but that doesn’t seem to relate to the torsion bar bracket.

Dick Hamel had a similar but milder issue that he pm-ed me about. He had it repaired with the help of a good shop and advice from a Trailmanor engineer, I’m hoping that his fix might be useful in this case as well.

I really appreciate the time and thought you all are giving this!

Jodi

[Bill]

Originally Posted by J_Norris

The floor outer frame wood feels and looks very solid when poked with a screwdriver on both the front piece of the wood frame and the street side of the wood frame.

This is great news. Replacing that wood would have been very difficult.

I looked and poked up into the wall where the screws pulled out and that doesn’t appear to be wood at all, there’s a wood-colored piece like a veneer along the bottom surface of the wall, and inside of the pulled out hole it is pretty smooth and white; it’s like gypsum board, but less crumbly than I’d expect from gypsum board (I don’t know much about construction materials).

Your explanation is clear, but I have no idea what it means. Larryjb may have some ideas - he is pretty good at this stuff.

I’ve also attached pictures of the front bumpers; they are pretty worn

They aren't "pretty worn", they are "omigod worn". Worn enough that they might permit some bouncing once you are under way. You need to replace them ASAP. One of our members made replacement out of tire treads picked up beside the road. Others (including me) bought some appropriate rubber material from (I think) Amazon.

Strangely the curbside bumper is much worse than the street side, but the problem of drooping torsion brackets is less pronounced on the curbside.

I'll have to digest this. Perhaps someone else will comment?

I haven’t had trouble with the main latches on the street side, I can put a little downward pressure on the roof with one hand to get them latched. The curbside takes a light foot in the stirrup to close (I can’t tug the roof on that side because of the awning).

Both of these soud just a little bit light, but not enough to cause a catastrophe. I don't think you need to adjust the main latch height. It almost sounds like a previous owner had adjusted the latches much too tight, noticed the problem, and backed them off before selling the trailer.

The upper clip on the front street-side draw-latch has started to pull downward, possibly because its mate is on the torsion bracket.

I'm still trying to figure out what this might signify, if anything. Again, it could be due to shell bouncing. On my TM, when I close my corner latches, they are firm, but they pull the shell down only about 1/8 inch. If the shell bounces, there would be a lot of stress applied to it at the bottom of the bounce. Setting the draw latches too tight has resulted in pulled clips for many folks here.

There is also a tear in the metal inside that I’ve included a picture of. I was wondering if the metal might have been torn by the couch slide being forced in at an angle and if that could have forced the wall detachment from the floor, but that doesn’t seem to relate to the torsion bar bracket.

It will take a while to digest this. I would be looking for other responders.

Dick Hamel had a similar but milder issue that he pm-ed me about. He had it repaired with the help of a good shop and advice from a Trailmanor engineer, I’m hoping that his fix might be useful in this case as well.

If Dick picked up any info from this, listen carefully to him - he is very good, and has kept his TM in very good shape despite it being a little older. His repair shop is also excellent. Unfortunately, it is not particularly close to Flagstaff (maybe 2500 miles?)

I really appreciate the time and thought you all are giving this!

Jodi

[Bill]

Originally Posted by J_Norris

The floor outer frame wood feels and looks very solid when poked with a screwdriver on both the front piece of the wood frame and the street side of the wood frame.

This is great news. Replacing that wood would have been very difficult.

I looked and poked up into the wall where the screws pulled out and that doesn’t appear to be wood at all, there’s a wood-colored piece like a veneer along the bottom surface of the wall, and inside of the pulled out hole it is pretty smooth and white; it’s like gypsum board, but less crumbly than I’d expect from gypsum board (I don’t know much about construction materials).

Your explanation is clear, but I have no idea what it means. Larryjb may have some ideas - he is pretty good at this stuff.

I’ve also attached pictures of the front bumpers; they are pretty worn

They aren't "pretty worn", they are "omigod worn". Worn enough that they might permit some bouncing once you are under way. You need to replace them ASAP. One of our members made replacement out of tire treads picked up beside the road. Others (including me) bought some appropriate rubber material from (I think) Amazon.

Strangely the curbside bumper is much worse than the street side, but the problem of drooping torsion brackets is less pronounced on the curbside.

I haven’t had trouble with the main latches on the street side, I can put a little downward pressure on the roof with one hand to get them latched. The curbside takes a light foot in the stirrup to close (I can’t tug the roof on that side because of the awning).

Both of these sound just a little bit light, but not enough to cause a catastrophe. I don't think you need to adjust the main latch height. It almost sounds like a previous owner had adjusted the latches much too tight, noticed the problem, and backed them off before selling the trailer.

The upper clip on the front street-side draw-latch has started to pull downward, possibly because its mate is on the torsion bracket.

I'm still trying to figure out what this might signify, if anything.

There is also a tear in the metal inside that I’ve included a picture of. I was wondering if the metal might have been torn by the couch slide being forced in at an angle and if that could have forced the wall detachment from the floor, but that doesn’t seem to relate to the torsion bar bracket.

It will take a while to digest this.

Dick Hamel had a similar but milder issue that he pm-ed me about. He had it repaired with the help of a good shop and advice from a Trailmanor engineer, I’m hoping that his fix might be useful in this case as well.

If Dick picked up any info from this, please listen to him - he is very good. His repair shop is excellent. Unfortunately, it is not particularly close to Flagstaff (maybe 2500 miles?)

Bill

[Larryjb]

Originally Posted by Bill

This is great news. Replacing that wood would have been very difficult.

Your explanation is clear, but I have no idea what it means. Larryjb may have some ideas - he is pretty good at this stuff.

Wow, Bill, you're giving me shoes that are at least 2 sizes too big for me!

But, from Jodi's pictures and descriptions, I see this so far:

1) The floor wood framing has separated from the rest of the floor, and also from the side wall, at the torsion bar mount.

2) The inside surface is topped with plywood which is why you don't see the drop from inside.

3) The white material you see could be Styrofoam or aluminum sheeting. Being a 2003, the wall is constructed from 1" aluminum perimeter frame with Styrofoam. All this is sandwiched between two thin sheets of aluminum. I believe what you may be seeing is the exterior thin aluminum sheet. The screws should be going through the 1" aluminum tubing, then into the wood floor structure.

I would be curious to hear what Dick had to do for his repair. I'm not sure if my suggestions would be reasonable or not, but this is what I'm thinking:
1) Pull the slide out from the box (Bill is the expert here!)

2) Support the upper shell securely. Because the repair would likely take a few days, I'd support the shell from the inside of the trailer where it is less likely to be knocked out of place.

3) Separate the lift arm from the torsion bar, and see about removing the torsion bar. If your torsion bars are weak and near the end of their adjustment, this would be a great time to replace.

4) Mark the torsion bar bracket position on the floor bottom AND at the side wall, then remove.

5) Peel back the aluminum skin in the location where the wood floor structure has separated. At this point, you'd have to analyse why the wood separated from the rest of the floor.

6) Remove the lower wall trim, then remove the screws where the floor separated from the wall.

Repair of the floor:
7) Jack the wood framing back into position. Use Gorilla Glue wherever you can (ie. wood frame to Styrofoam, wood frame to plywood floor.)

8) From the inside, remove the aluminum track at the bottom edge. Drill and insert 2" #10 screws to hold the wood framing back onto the plywood floor anywhere the frame separated from the floor. This cannot be the main structural support, but will help with clamping the wood framing to the wood floor.

I'd also look into seeing if I could bolt the wood framing to the rest of the floor. This will be a challenge because the aluminum strip has to sit flush on the floor for the slide. I'm not sure what can be done to reinforce this.

9) Use more Gorilla Glue to reattach the lower aluminum skin back to the Styrofoam and wood framing. Staple to hold.

10) Reassemble. All screws that pulled out will have to be inserted into new positions so they will hold.




All this might be hogwash, but it may get you thinking.

Good luck! (I hope this doesn't happen to me!!!!)