Inspecting older TM

Hello to all out there! To begin with, THANK YOU! Your discussions and informational postings have helped us more than you will ever know and we are very grateful! You're a wild and crazy bunch! We have been considering buying a TM for a few years now, and have located a 2000 model 3023 that is right in our price range and is actually here in Colorado! Wow. Anyhow, it shows normal wear, but is still a nice unit for the age. We are heading up next week to set it up and test out the plumbing, electric, propane, etc., to make sure all is well. I have researched this on the forum and have found many useful hints. Do any of you have any suggestions for us in this respect?

OK, now the biggie: Since we have 4 kids - aged 10, 6, 4 and 2 - I am definitely into getting the unit as clean as I can (before they add their own dirt ) I looked to see how you all suggest inspecting and cleaning the Thetford, but haven't found how to inspect without taking it apart, which I can't do before I buy it. And probably don't want to do after purchase either, if we don't have to. eww. SO...do you have any ideas about inspecting it pre-sale and cleaning the tank post-sale?

Thank you all for your help, it's been fun 'listening' to your discussions. Hope you have some good ideas for us!

4Kids2Dogs said:

OK, now the biggie: Since we have 4 kids - aged 10, 6, 4 and 2 - I am definitely into getting the unit as clean as I can (before they add their own dirt ) I looked to see how you all suggest inspecting and cleaning the Thetford, but haven't found how to inspect without taking it apart, which I can't do before I buy it. And probably don't want to do after purchase either, if we don't have to. eww. SO...do you have any ideas about inspecting it pre-sale and cleaning the tank post-sale?

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I'd say you're best bet with the recirculating toilet is of course to try flushing it to see if it works. This might not be so easy to do in that for a complete test, the TM will need to be connected to a sewer drain, which not many homeowners have in their driveway, or a "Blue Tote". A "Blue Tote" is a generic name for a plastic container used to hold the contents of a "blackwater" tank, or in your case, the recirculating toilet. I've seen blue and gray colored totes. There is no blackwater tank per se in the Trailmanor - everything is held within the toilet itself - about six gallons worth as I recall.

If you can manage some sort of drain connection (sewer or Tote), charge the toilet with plain water. See if the fill gauge works - the needle should move into the 'green' area when toilet is fully charged (about 2 gallons). Press the flush button and you should see a fairly strong stream of water coming from the underside of the rim. Flush several times to ensure good operations. The 'T' valve must be in the closed position (pushed in towards the bowl).

Next, I'd continue filling the tank with another 2-3 gallons of plain water to simulate normal usage. Now the big test: With the outside slide valve in the closed position, pull the 'T' handle away from the bowl. As soon as you do this, you should hear a "swooshing noise". The noise indicates the toilet contents are being emptied into the large black drain line. If you don't hear the "swooshing noise" the EZ Valve Slide gasket might be deformed or otherwise damaged. This is not necessarily a deal breaker, as the gasket or even the entire valve can be replaced, but you'll have to remove the toilet to do so (I had to do exactly this).

Hope this explanation helps. Good luck with your acqusiition

Nick

I certainly wouldn't let the toilet get in the way of a good deal. The owner may have it charged (full of flush water), and if so and it flushes fine, that's about 90% of it right there.

But there's not a whole lot that can go wrong with the toilet, compared to how Thetford intended it to work. It's basically a motor (the pump) in a bucket. If it's not visually damaged, it's probably fine. Absolute worst case scenario is that you throw the whole thing away -- a replacement is about $600, and if you've never done it before, you can probably do so in less than 1-2 hours if you're drinking beer simultaneously. But I can't think of anything that could go wrong that would require a replacement, so if something is broken, it's easily fixed.

It's a very simple device, and parts are available.

Perhaps others will comment, but I'd focus my attention on more potentially costly issues, like damaged frame, leaks, the fridge, and the A/C.

Dave

Good advice!

Thanks for the prompt imput! I guess I overthink the toilet issue since it seems yucky to fix or clean. We will focus on the more vital issues you mentioned. The owners left the TM with a friend at a half-way point between our towns, and it will not be set up or charged. We will try to at least charge it to the point of flushing and make sure that works. As far as dumping, we may have to wait until we get her home to do that. I never knew about the tote, and will have to keep that in mind for future reference. If we can secure a sewer connection we will sure try to fill and dump. If we can buy this unit and if the need arises, I will be sure to stock the fridge with beer before I send the man to work on the Thetford .

Testing the AC seems fairly forthright, just see if it comes on and gets cool? In regard to testing the fridge, how could I do this in an inspection run through? It seems like it would need time to cool down, and I don't know that we will have time to wait. Or should I just get it lit (I read the propane systems tutorial) and make sure it stays lit?

You guys are great! Thanks again!

The toilet can be dumped into a bucket and the bucket carried to the toilet in the house.

If it is a clean empty toilet, and you only put in enough water to verify that the pump can recirculate the water, then it is not too yucky to dispose of the waer that way. It only takes about 2 gallons of water to charge it. So a low profile one gallon bucket would mean two or three trips to dump it.

I do not recommend his for normal usage, but for a one time only test it would suffice.

When our gray water tank is getting close to full, and someone wants to take a shower, I tell them that they have to carry a bucket of gray water to dispose of. If they are unwilling to do that then they don't need a shower bad enough.

4Kids2Dogs said:

Testing the AC seems fairly forthright, just see if it comes on and gets cool?

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Yep, although now that I re-read your message, since you are looking at a 2000, it's not a big deal since the A/C is a side mount. Turn it on -- if it's cooling within 5 minutes, it's probably fine. A bit tricky this time of year though unless you are in a warm climate. If you need to replace it, it's $100-$150 and takes about 15 minutes. It's the roof-mounted ones on later models that are $1000+.

4Kids2Dogs said:

In regard to testing the fridge, how could I do this in an inspection run through? It seems like it would need time to cool down, and I don't know that we will have time to wait. Or should I just get it lit (I read the propane systems tutorial) and make sure it stays lit?

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Ideally, it would be nice to have it cooled before your arrival. But it sounds like that's not possible. Choice #2 would be to wait around till it gets fairly chilly. Make that the first thing you do as soon as you get it setup. Otherwise, getting it lit isn't a guarantee that it works. If the system has a leak, it will light, appear to work well, but won't get cold, or cold enough. Within about 15 minutes after starting it, the interior walls should start to feel cool to the touch. Go out for lunch after you're done with the walk through, and go back to check on the fridge and finish the deal.

The fridge cools through 3 different heaters, which operate on gas, 110 AC or DC. You use only one at a time, but in a perfect world, you want to test all 3 to guarantee that everything works. But that is very difficult to do if you don't have time, and I doubt most people do that. I didn't.....I took the guy at his word.

The fridge is pricey, and stuff does sometimes go wrong with them. $1,000 to replace with a new one, and you could easily spend a few hundred bucks getting something fixed.

If they say it works, it cools fine on AC after an hour, and the gas lights, I think I'd be fine with that.

Dave

You can feel the fins on the fridge get cold after a short time.

Make sure the toilet doesn't leak. Often the valve at the base (t handle) leaks. You'd have to replace the seal. Sometimes it pops back in place too.

Big thing to check for is rotting in the walls from water damage since that model will have some wood in there. make sure things aren't soft or trim coming loose due to nothing to tie to.

I'd definitely check the refrigerator, on the propane mode. I say this because if it works on propane, it will work anywhere. Ask them to top off the propane tanks for you. It's not that hot this time of the year (I guess in CO it's pretty cold, we're in amazingly-climate-changing CA where it's been 80 degrees in January and yet we have 29 degree nights now), and you should be able to feel it cooling down within 1/2 hour (or less). Bring along a thermometer so that you can measure the drop in temperature, that's more of a sure thing than just using your hand to test it. The refrigerator and the toilet are the most expensive things. Sometimes, if the gas lines are empty, it can take a while to get the refrigerator lit on propane. I always run some gas through the stove first (i.e. light it and the oven), and it also helps to light the water heater too...then there should be gas close to the refrigerator.

Ask them to fill the water tank with at least 5 gallons so you can check the plumbing and the grey water tank.

Check all the corners for weakness, top and bottom. Just look at them closely, inside and out. Separation there would indicate problems. I have a 1997 and I don't think mine has any wood in the roof corners, but you never know. I've never torn mine apart and I don't intend to.

Make sure it's easy to open and close, it should be parked on a level site for testing. Some tilting of the roof is normal (the center will be higher than the front and back). The door gets out of whack sometimes, I think they all do, especially if it's not parked on a level pad. If you can't get it latched, move it around a bit, trying with it open and closed (and in between). TM's are a different kind of RV, they have their quirks, and you get used to them. Do you have the brochure that shows you how to open it up and close it down? I could email it to you if you'd like. I got it from Hal (thanks again Hal!) and would be glad to pass it along.

Upon edit: check my photo albums for the brochure on opening and closing the TM, I just uploaded it.

Inspecting a used TM

May want to test hot water heater to make sure you are getting hot water to the shower or at least ask if it is working?

I think one of the most important items not to miss is the condition of the tires. When were they last changed out?

Joe S.

JOEALAN said:

I think one of the most important items not to miss is the condition of the tires. When were they last changed out?

Joe S.

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Yes, I will second that. The guy I bought mine from told me the tires were brand new, and they looked it. This was before I knew how to tell the age of them. After a year of pulling it around I found out that they were the age of the TM. (8 years old) guess I was lucky that I didn't have a blow out.
Do not trust everything they are telling you. Some people will lie, just to get rid of it.

OK! Good ideas from all! I will take my utility bucket with us per Wayne's instructions. I actually may have a 5 gallon bucket -- would that be too tall to fit under the waste dumping pipe?
As for the AC, it is a roof mount, not a side mount. It hasn't been overly cold this month, but not hot either. I will, however, try to test it out. Testing the fridge is going to be more of a job, it sounds like. I do not know how full the propane tanks are and this deal will include them "as-is", but I will try lighting the stove first to try to get the air out of the line before I light the fridge. Good suggestion to do this first.
The only wall damage is a small area over the sink that was browned when the owners put it down before the water heater was cooled. There does not seem to be any water damage or leaks and they assure us they have not had any. We will be sure to look in the corners and around the vents. BTW, how do you turn on the 'fantastic fan'? That sounds like a really desirable feature to have. Is there also a bathroom fan to test?
I will review your opening and closing brochure, B&D, thanks for putting it out there! We can also fire up the water heater and test the shower and sink. The seller said that the kitchen sink faucet usually needs to be tightened after towing as it jiggles loose, so I guess I'd better make sure we have some tools.
As for the tires, interestingly enough, they had a blow-out while towing it down to Pueblo from Denver due to hitting road debris from a Semi blowout in front of them. So, they had to get a new tire on that side. The other tire, I don't know about, but will look closely. Don't know which side blew out, guess I'd better ask them to make sure it wasn't the sewer connection side! I'm going to try insert the pics they sent to me, so you all can see what we are looking at, too.
Again, you guys are just great. We are looking forward to being part of all the fun!:corkysm60

Another suggestion.

If this is sitting out in Colorado, odds are that the interior is cool enough that the AC will come on, but without the compressor. Suggest you try the heat first to warm up the inside can even run both at once., then check the ac after the interior has warmed up.
Be sure to fill the hot water with water before turning it on.
I would test the firdge on gas first and if it cools well then shut off Let the outside heat exchanger (vertical cylinder) cool. and switch to electric. If the heat exchanger column gets hot the 110 element is working and should cool fine as well. If you buy it, check my post in the plumbing section re adding a clean out port to the water tank, It makes cleaning a water tank that has been around for a while simple and thorough. Good Luck you will enjoy your TM.

4Kids2Dogs said:

BTW, how do you turn on the 'fantastic fan'? That sounds like a really desirable feature to have. Is there also a bathroom fan to test?corkysm60

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there is a knob at the fantastic fan that you turn it on. (it is very obvious when you see it) there will also be another knob that you will have to turn to open the cover to it, (again, very obvious when you see it)

as far as the bathroom fan, there is a switch below the sink, (you can actually see it in the bath pic that you posted)

good luck....

Be sure to check for any damage resulting from the blow out, particularly if it was on the driver's side -- the tire is right under the sink, water heater, and a bunch of plumbing, including the dump pipe, so you'll want to take a good look there to see if there is any remaining damage.

If it was on the passenger side (with the stove) -- not a big deal. There are just cabinets there, and any damage will likely be fairly superficial if there's any left.

The water heater in older models (like mine) don't have an electric element. Gas only.

From the pictures, it appears to be in pretty good shape.

Dave

Propone

If you are concerned about propane level and testing the appliances, if you have a gas grill, take your tank with you and you will be certain tohave sufficient gas to check it out. From the pics, looks like it is in good shape.

4Kids2Dogs said:

OK! Good ideas from all! I will take my utility bucket with us per Wayne's instructions. I actually may have a 5 gallon bucket -- would that be too tall to fit under the waste dumping pipe?

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A 5 gallon bucket is too tall. There is only about 10 to 12 inches of vertical space between the ground and the bottom of the dump valves..

When I want to empty the gray tank in a campground, in order to take more showers, we use two 5 gallon buckets to shuttle back and forth to the campground restroom for dumping and use a shallow bucket to capture the drained water and transfer that to a 5 gallon bucket.

I have considered a blue tote, but we only run into the problem twice a year.

For me, the problem with using a blue tote is how do I dump the water from the blue tote down the campground toilet? The blue tote assumes you have access to an rv dump station. I could put the blue tote in the back of the truck, but then I need 3o feet of sewer host to go from the truck to the campground toilet. I would be better off with a macerator.

Great! We will stick with the 2 gallon utility bucket for testing the plumbing. We will also check the heat exchanger while we test the fridge. You're right, it may be cooler next week, so testing the AC might be hard. We will try the heating up/cooling down method! Good idea, too, to take the grill propane with us just in case. Let's hope the blow-out was on the passenger side! We'll check carefully under the plumbing lines, anyway.

On another note, do any of you have any ideas about the value of this unit? Oddly enough, the sellers thought it was a 2001 model, but when we saw the title, it was a 2000. We had thought their initial price was fair at 9K, but when we saw that it was a year older, we got to wondering if that would change the value. Checked out NADA, but it was hard to figure because their options list didn't really match the TM stuff. It came up quite a bit lower at $6800, which seems too low, at least from what I've seen from any "for sale" listings I've come across. So I called the dealership and they came in even lower at $5000 (but that is for trade in). Hmmm. I know that actual values are not determined as much from book value but from what the market will actually bear. So I was wondering what you guys who have some experience thought about pricing.

Thanks as always for letting me pick your brains!

year

Don't want to speculate on pricing, but TM's are similar to autos,in that the manufacture date and model year don't always match. Ie a 2009 model could be manufactured in May 2008. There will be a data plate on the TM which should have the manufacture date.

It looks in better shape than my 2003 though it needs outside cleaning. make sure they have the leaf for the table and cranks for the awning and stabs too. make sure the water heater has water before you start it.
There will likely be loose screws and stuff but they are easy fixes.

Wow are those 14" wheels and tires? Tow it home with empty water tanks.

That's interesting about the years for cars -- If it is a 2001 model made in 2000, would the title still say 2000? As for the tires, I don't know sizes, it could be 14". Is that good? I do know that the sellers had it reupholstered and got the propane tank cover. It also has two 20 gallon fresh water tanks, and that seems like a plus to me. If this inspection works out well, we are looking forward to getting it spiffed up and hitting the road with the clan. :errrr: