Replacing WFCO converter

[rickst29]

You could also handle the 12V wiring behind the WFCO "power center" by purchasing this device, https://www.ebay.com/itm/122894438164. It provides 4 fused ports for "maxi" fuses with 8-AWG wire, and 3 larger ports (without fuses) on the main bus bar. Maxi fuses come in a wide range of sizes, from only 5A to more than 100A each.

These ports accept stripped wire ends without lugs, so you might be able to avoid lugs and the hammer crimp tool to attach these medium-sized wires in the area behind the WFCO unit. (You will still need lugs at the battery end of the main wire., and it will probably need a separate fuse as well).

The nominal wire sizes are around 8-AWG on the fused ports. Smaller wire ends from the the PD Converter output "+12v", and maybe two wires into the WFCO fuse board (if you leave them fused for only 30A with AWG-10 wire), all need to be "built up" in diameter by adding a glob of solder, maybe with a copper sleeve as well.

If you upgrade the wires to the WFCO fuse board to 8-AWG, then you don't need to build up those ends into this 4-way "maxi" fuse holder -- but bending those larger wires into the WFCO fuse board ports is somewhat challenging, especially for the upper left "12V" port. (The diameter is fine for AWG-8, the problem is the lock of room for bending the wires into the ports).

A "battery wire" upgrade AWG-4 (rather than AWG-6) fits the small port of the main bus perfectly, as long as you leave the provided "sleeve" in place. But I would still melt some solder into the stranded bare end, so that the screw-down port holds it better.

That battery wire should have a properly sized external fuse, at some additional cost. For my main "battery +" wire into the WFCO area (it's a long one), I use a cheap ANL fuse holder of the type Wavery showed in his post.

[jola1925]

Hello, I have not purchased anything yet but will need to make a list.
At the moment it looks like the PD4655VL w/remote or the PD 4655L Wildkat is the best choice, but I don't know the differences & have not heard back from Bestconverter.com.

Once I have most/all of the parts we can start.

Thanks,
John

[rickst29]

I own one of the older WildKat units, and the Lithium output voltage setting on mine is too high (14.6 volts). Ask Randy if the current WildKat units he sells now provide only 14.4 volts in "Lithium".

PD changed that value in their own units about a year ago, following a lot of talk with me and other "people" from battery manufacturing companies. If Randy continues to be unavailable, a great alternative source is battleborn (a pretty famous battery manufacturer and seller in my home town). They sell lots of accessory equipment, in addition to batteries. Here is their page for the 4600. Their price is even lower than Randy's. Just confirm by phone that the unit they're sending is compatible with AGM (isn't Lithium-only). If they don't include the charge wizard wired remote, I can send you one myself.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...rter-chargers/

[Hdlaut]

Are you aware that you can get a replacement charge board for the WFCO unit that will auto-select between lead acid/AGM and LifePo4? That would get you up and running quickly and bridge the gap until you decide on solar, inverter, etc.

[benjburton]

Originally Posted by rickst29

I own one of the older WildKat units, and the Lithium output voltage setting on mine is too high (14.6 volts). Ask Randy if the current WildKat units he sells now provide only 14.4 volts in "Lithium".

PD changed that value in their own units about a year ago, following a lot of talk with me and other "people" from battery manufacturing companies.

I bought a PD WildKat with the Pendant about 4 years ago.
https://www.bestconverter.com/PD-465...te-_p_677.html

I was getting ready to drop a 100ah lithium battery in to replace my current SLA. There's a jumper I have to move on the circuit board to enable the lithium charging.
After reading your post, are you saying that the charge voltage may be too high for lithium? Also, did you mention that the charge voltage will not automatically change its voltage when in the lithium mode? If that's the case, this in large part defeats the primary reason I bought this converter.

[MBushaw]

It looks like you have a path.
If you haven’t started upgrading yet, there should be two unmarked fuses, probably 30 amp that feed the DC charging circuit. Mine were blown but the factory solar kept the batteries mostly charged for quite some time.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by benjburton

I bought a PD WildKat with the Pendant about 4 years ago.
https://www.bestconverter.com/PD-465...te-_p_677.html

I was getting ready to drop a 100ah lithium battery in to replace my current SLA. There's a jumper I have to move on the circuit board to enable the lithium charging.
After reading your post, are you saying that the charge voltage may be too high for lithium? Also, did you mention that the charge voltage will not automatically change its voltage when in the lithium mode? If that's the case, this in large part defeats the primary reason I bought this converter.

Hi Ben.

My own WildKat is slightly older than yours. The output voltage with the Lithium DIP switch set is about 14.6V. The resulting voltage, 3.65 volts average per cell, is higher than you want to push LFP cells in normal use or in long term storage. But your battery pack (bought as either "12V" pre-assembled, or built from cells and a few parts at home in about 45 minutes) needs to be protected a a BMS unit which can be monitored from a cellphone (using bluetooth), and also re-configured from that same cellphone program.

i have switched my own 'WildKat' from 'AGM/GEL' support (controllable via the pendant), to the constant ligh-voltage "Lithium" switch setting. My "12v" appliances (Propane/CO2 gas detector, water pump, etc.) all seem to be OK with this slightly high voltage value. Your converter (just like mine) is OK, even though the 'Lithium" ouptut power voltage is slightly higher than most of the "12V" equipment" likes to receive. The Lithium battery pack BMS units should protect the packs (and their individual cells with 100% reliability).

During trips, I set my BMS units to stop accepting any more charging current after reaching 3.55 volts on the highest cell. When all cells have reaqched that level, the total is only 14.2 volts. (In my BMS, balancing current begins between the cells at slightly lower voltaqe, bringing them all close to that value together.)

My solar system, when plug-power is not present, is also configured to push out slightly-high voltage (14.4 volts) than I allow into the batteries . The batteries still refuse to accept any more "charging power in" after reaching 14.2 volts total, they don't care where the power actually comes from (Solar versus the WildKat plug-in converter).
- - -

When I store the TM for more than one week between trips (which is almost all the time), I reduce that maximum voltage for charging cut-off from 3.55 volts per cell to only 3.26 volts per cell. Storing at about 45% full (rather than 99% full) improves the lifepspan of LFP battery cells. (All lead-acid types, in contrast, NEED to be kept and stored as close to 100% as you can get -- 365 days a year, while not overcharging).

Once every 6 months or so, while plugged in, I raise the per-cell charging limit all the way to 3.65 -- just to push them to the ir maximum limits. Some manufacturers (including EVE) recommend doing that every 3 to 6 months.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by benjburton

I bought a PD WildKat with the Pendant about 4 years ago.
https://www.bestconverter.com/PD-465...te-_p_677.html

I was getting ready to drop a 100ah lithium battery in to replace my current SLA. There's a jumper I have to move on the circuit board to enable the lithium charging.
After reading your post, are you saying that the charge voltage may be too high for lithium? Also, did you mention that the charge voltage will not automatically change its voltage when in the lithium mode? If that's the case, this in large part defeats the primary reason I bought this converter.

The WildKat can push bout nearly 60A of current, continuously, for charging batteries and running 12V appliances. The standard wiring of the "Power Converter" and the batteries into the WFCO 12-volt circuit board can't handle that on either side. Each port (the 12V battery port, and the 12V Converter output port) on that fuse board has only a 30A fuse - and you can't replace just the fuses, because TM's original wire size (10-AWG) must not loaded with more than 30A of current.

With your current lead-acid batteries, internal resistance in the battery cells prevents high current from EVER happening. The internal resistance of LFP battery cells is is vastly smaller, they will be deighted to suck in everything the WildKat puts out (60A) - limited only by the BMS switching on and off from "over-current", or total shutdown from blowing those fuses.

A '100Ah' 12-volt battery pack BMS might be configured to accept more than 30 Amps of Charge current because the cells themselves (good ones) can handle up to 50A. But frequently invoking that error condition in the BMS, and then allowing a short period of "recovery" after some period of delay, will drive the WildKat crazy -- and also damage the cells.

You should IMO get (or build) a bigger battery, capable of handling more than 60A continous charge current. You should also rewire the Converter and battery connections, providing a direct path on wire of size AWG-4 or even larger.

The WildKat provides only a tiny "12V" output power wire, which isn't suitable for a big 80A fuse. But you can put that short wire wire (unfused) into a fully insulated 4-way power distribution "bus bar", and instead fuse ALL OF THE OTHER WIRES:

1. The 4-AWG to the battery pack gets an 80A fuse.
2. Two wires (10-AWG each) from the WFCO fuse board already have 30A fuses on thye WFCO board.

You will also need at least 4-AWG for getting from the tiny and sho9rt WildKat "DC output grouding wire" to reach the battery pack, this can be done through a non-insulated and frame-connected grounding bar.

[rickst29]

Docan power sells pre-built units with the excellent 'JBD' BMS in sizes 230AH and 300AH, although they show no stock within USA.

Do not buy direct from the web site, join Amy Docan's private group https://www.facebook.com/groups/docanamy and ask her for a private quote. The price will be better, and her shipping can be faster.

[benjburton]

Wow, that's a lot to digest rickst29! Looks like some good advice and things to think about here. I'm going to have to take some time and read through this a few times. Next time the trailer is open, in a couple of weeks, I'm going to have to test to see what my output voltage is in lithium mode. I'm still trying to wrap my ahead around why multiple stage charging for lithium is not good like it is for SLAs. A concern with that is being plugged into shore power for several days at a site, pumping potentially 14.6v into it nonstop. I realize the BMS should shut it down, but I would think it still preferred to have a lower trickle charge like when set for SLAs.

Changing out my already purchased battery isn't an option I'm going to consider, but some good advice for those considering options. Unfortunately, my battery does not have the ability to connect to the BMS to make adjustments, so I'm stuck with what I've got, which is a LiTime 100ha.

One thing I don't quite understand is the need for a 4awg wire, which seems excessive. How is a 10awg wire okay at when the converter will still push 14.4v in boost mode? It seems your saying that even though the converter is capable of 55 amps, the SLA will not accept that current but the lithium will. I'm surprised to hear the battery type can affect the amount of current the converter is pushing. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. As I said, I'll have to read through this a few more times.

Looking at boost mode, maybe an option would be to not put the converter in lithium mode, then just use the pendant to set the output at 14.4v when desired. But then that would require me opening the shells to set my voltage each time I plug in when stored, which is not an option in my garage. Lot to think about!