Kumho blowout!

[ShrimpBurrito]

Dee - Yes, you are correct. The tread did separate, but didn't detach as it did in the first one. So it wasn't the ultimate test, I agree, but there were lots of pieces of rubber on the cage, and I saw a bunch fly off in the mirror as we pulled over.

Also, I forgot to add -- the dealer where I bought the 15"ers took my 14" Maxxis spare I had just bought and by this time had about 5 miles on it. In exchange, he gave me one of the 15" 225's at no charge.

To answer the other questions:

brulaz - Yes, the axle is not welded to the same point on the left and right sides. They are off by an inch. Check out this thread:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=6078. Given I will be at the factory next week, I may bring this up again in person.

wayne / Francis - The valve stems are not the old 100% rubber ones. There is a rubber seal around the rim, but then there is a metal stem coming out of the seal. They are rated for at least 100 psi, and maybe 125. A closeup view of the stem of here:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...stem#post41145

Robert - Yes, my TM is stored outside, but in between 2 houses. Being that we live in SoCal, "in between 2 houses" means there is about 3-4 feet tops between each side of the TM and a house, one of which is 2 story. That means the tires see very little sun, so I don't think the failures were a result of UV damage.

Dave

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Dee - Yes, you are correct. The tread did separate, but didn't detach as it did in the first one. So it wasn't the ultimate test, I agree, but there were lots of pieces of rubber on the cage, and I saw a bunch fly off in the mirror as we pulled over.

Also, I forgot to add -- the dealer where I bought the 15"ers took my 14" Maxxis spare I had just bought and by this time had about 5 miles on it. In exchange, he gave me one of the 15" 225's at no charge.

To answer the other questions:

brulaz - Yes, the axle is not welded to the same point on the left and right sides. They are off by an inch. Check out this thread:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=6078. Given I will be at the factory next week, I may bring this up again in person.

wayne / Francis - The valve stems are not the old 100% rubber ones. There is a rubber seal around the rim, but then there is a metal stem coming out of the seal. They are rated for at least 100 psi, and maybe 125. A closeup view of the stem of here:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...stem#post41145

Robert - Yes, my TM is stored outside, but in between 2 houses. Being that we live in SoCal, "in between 2 houses" means there is about 3-4 feet tops between each side of the TM and a house, one of which is 2 story. That means the tires see very little sun, so I don't think the failures were a result of UV damage.

Dave

I'm sorry that this happened. It must have been very stressful but I am glad that you upgraded and will most likely have a worry free rest of your trip.

My hunch is the 15" tires should last you a good 5 years with no concerns.

I'm going to upgrade soon......... I just have to recover from spending $500 on a PowerCaster PC2 trailer mover....... I like it but it suuuuuuuuuuuure iiiiiiiiiiis sllllloooooooooooooooowwwww.

Dave, I have been reading up on your terrible tire troubles. Man, I hate this.

I am like you, and don't believe that temperature/elevation change is the culprit. Your tow vehicle tires went thru the same, without any trouble.

It is so hard to diagnose a tire that has a blowout, as far as the tread peeling off. It's hard to know if the tire blew, then the tread peeled from the run flat.......or if the tread peeled first, which caused the sidewall to blow. It can happen either way.

On tires that don't actually blow, but the tread peels off (and they still have air), then you can say for sure the tire separated (technically it's called tread delamination)

I am doing a lot of thinking on this. I'm already pretty sure of the answer, but do you check the air pressure in your TV tires when you check your tires on the trailer? Or does your Toyota have a Tire Pressure Monitoring System on it, so you don't have to check the pressure? There is a reason I am asking this.

[ShrimpBurrito]

My Toyota does have a factory TPMS, so while I don't check its tires as often, I do check them at least every time we take the TM on a trip. I think the last time I checked them was at home though right before we left, so I doubt that will shed any light on the situation, as you're probably looking for running temps.

While cool, they are pretty steady, however, so I rarely have to add or remove air.....maybe 3 times a year.

I do know that the Kumhos have been running pretty warm on this trip -- very warm during the first blowout, but the rim and hub were very warm then too. Unfortunately, however, while I routinely feel the hubs, I don't really remember ever feeling the Kumhos themselves prior to this trip, so I don't have a baseline reference.

On the second blowout, everything was cooler -- warmer than lukewarm, but not as how as before. That was expected though because the ambient air temp was 10-15 degrees lower (low 80's). The new 15" wheels and tires run slightly cooler (lukewarm) than the Kumhos in the same ambient temp.

Dave

Oh man...

Very sorry to hear about the second blow out.

Glad to hear that the 15's fit and that the cage protected the plumbing!

Yes, do post a picture!..

Safe trip to you and hopefully all the bad is behind you now.


WMTIRE - Any ideas why it is that sometimes both tires pop on the same trip so close in time to each other? Seems that if both pop one behind the other, more or less, than what is causing them to pop should be common to both tires. If we as owners are doing all we can to insure a correct operating environment then the tire must be at fault? Or does the TM have something unique to it that makes it a little rougher on tires? Perhaps the axle being placed a bit farther back? Just wondering out loud sort of......

[ShrimpBurrito]

Reporting from Leavenworth, Kansas.....pictures are below!

[MudDog]

Your TM with the black rims is starting to look a little like that SpiderMan/Super Hero rig

Here's to hoping the rest of your trip is uneventful!!

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

as you're probably looking for running temps.
Dave

Kinda sorta, but from a different angle........possibly in a low tire and how hot it gets.

I'm just trying to look at several things, but most likely it's going to be the tires themselves.........which I have stated from the beginning that only time would tell how well all of our alternatives held up.

The reason I originally asked about checking air pressure on the trailer (but not posssibly the TV), was the air pressure gauge itself. I have seen many of the air gauges (especially these .99 cent pencil gauges you see on a counter display), actually bend/break/damage the valve core. This is the spring actuated core in the middle of the valve stem that holds the air in the tire, that I'm talking about. When the gauge messes up the core, the tire will slowly leak air.......possibly down to the point where it would overheat and blow depending on the load.

Even the gauges we use here in the shop, do this from time to time....and we have to replace the core.

That's why I was trying to determine if you checked all your tires with this gauge or just the trailer tires. I would have guessed that if this gauge was damaging the cores, it would have damaged some on your TV too.........which you said you don't check near as much on, since they have a TPMS.

The two tires, both going out so close to each other, is what has me concerned.

I downloaded your pics and am going to let another tire dealer look at them tomorrow and see if he has an opinion, on why/if they delaminated.

I just hope you are thru with tires for awhile.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Kinda sorta, but from a different angle........possibly in a low tire and how hot it gets.

I'm just trying to look at several things, but most likely it's going to be the tires themselves.........which I have stated from the beginning that only time would tell how well all of our alternatives held up.

The reason I originally asked about checking air pressure on the trailer (but not posssibly the TV), was the air pressure gauge itself. I have seen many of the air gauges (especially these .99 cent pencil gauges you see on a counter display), actually bend/break/damage the valve core. This is the spring actuated core in the middle of the valve stem that holds the air in the tire, that I'm talking about. When the gauge messes up the core, the tire will slowly leak air.......possibly down to the point where it would overheat and blow depending on the load.

Even the gauges we use here in the shop, do this from time to time....and we have to replace the core.

That's why I was trying to determine if you checked all your tires with this gauge or just the trailer tires. I would have guessed that if this gauge was damaging the cores, it would have damaged some on your TV too.........which you said you don't check near as much on, since they have a TPMS.

The two tires, both going out so close to each other, is what has me concerned.

I downloaded your pics and am going to let another tire dealer look at them tomorrow and see if he has an opinion, on why/if they delaminated.

I just hope you are thru with tires for awhile.

I'm thinking that it is merely a simple case of the tires breaking down due to stress. The 14" tires are fairly maxed out without a WDH. Placing and additional couple hundred pounds from just the tension of the spring bars and possibly several hundred pounds when hitting bumps, dips etc, has to shorten the life of the tires.

I went out this morning and bought 2' of 2" steel tubing. I'll be installing my lift kit this week and new tires & wheels in a few months.

Anyone interested in some 14" tires & wheels? The tires are ~one year old and have about 4,000 miles on them. I've never used a WDH with them.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Bobby - I too was actually just thinking about the tire gauge before I read your post, but not for the reason you explained as I am ignorant as to event you explained as even existing! But I was thinking perhaps that my gauge was inaccurate. It is not a .99 cent job, but it's not a super fancy thing either. It is made in the U.S., and I think it was maybe $10 or so, and looks exactly like this:



But then I remembered that I measured the air pressure of the new tires before they were mounted, and the gauge read 80 psi. That is the max pressure of the tire, and that is the pressure the tech specifically said he inflated them to. So I know at least the gauge is accurate.

As far as damaging the valve core.....I use the same gauge to check my TV tires and have probably had it for 10 years. Through its use, I've never had a tire that was constantly losing air unless it had a foreign object in the tire. Even the TM tires held air pretty consistently.....I generally never had to air to them during the course of a trip....usually only once before our once-a-month trips, and even then, maybe just 2-3 psi. And often times they wouldn't need any air at all.

Speaking of gauges, I was thinking that a dial gauge would be more accurate and/or consistent. If that's true, have you seen any that you recommend strongly?

I just ordered the TST TMPS system for the trailer. It's being delivered to the east coast so I can install it for use for our return home. I don't know if it will help, but I don't know what else to do to improve my odds at this point.

Dave