please help! head is spinning. new to towing & the more I read the more unsure i am

[coralcrazed]

Originally Posted by Redhawk

I use the air bag system on the rear of my Tundra, they were installed to be used when I had the ATV (800 lbs) loaded in the bed while towing the TM. They work great, if you want to stabilize your load a bit and level the rear, I highly recommend them. You would still want to use your WDH though...

thanks I intend on purchasing this item for the sienna and of course still use the WDH. wondering, did you install it yourself? I looked at a video and seems simple enough to do.

[coralcrazed]

Thanks to everyone that contributed and is helping me through the thought process of all of this.

I have another question... I've been crunching some prelim. numbers on the tow rating of the vehicle and trailer and would like to know if I should be adding the hitch weight to the cars max. load capacity? which to me makes sence since the hitch is attached to the TV. AND... what about the WDH? thats an attachment to the hitch so is that added to the TV load capacity or would that be considered a part of the toung weight of the TM?

I also need clarification on what is sway bars. I was under the impression that the WDH's steel bars that attach via a chain to the trailer are sway bars but the through resurch I see piston type sway bars. so I'm not sure.

[coralcrazed]

the following is my math usung prelim. numbers...

capacity and distribution calculations: as per manual

given:
A. max. towing capacity = 3500 lbs.
B. Total load capacity for 2006 sienna = 1250 lbs.

(total load cap.) - (total weight of occ.) = cargo weight
1250 - 586 = 664

(cargo weight) - (hitch) - (WDH) = cargo weight bal.
664 - 70 - 85 = 509

(cargo weight bal.) - (tongue weight at 15% of total TM weight) = cargo bal.
509 - 408

This only leaves 101 lbs. for cargo (ie: clothes, food for the ride ect) yikes!

manual states that you can remove the center seats which are about 110 lbs. to gain some cargo weight which according to the above may need to happen. unless the WDH is figured into the trailer tongue weight instead??? not sure?


total weight calculations: as per manual page 408 it states " the combination of gross trailer weight, weight of vehicle, occupants and cargo must not exceed 8700 lbs."

trailer weight = 2750 lbs.
trailer cargo = 280 lbs.
occupants = 586 lbs.
vehicle weight = 5690 (GVWR) - 1250 (total load cap) = 4440 lbs.
hitch = 70
WDH = 85

total = 8211 - 8700 = 489 lbs. for other cargo to be carried in TV and any other added accesory to the TM (ac, antena ect)


Toungue weight calculations: as per manual page 409

tongue load / total trailer x 100 = 15% (if using a WDH)
408 / 2720 x 100 = 14.8%

ok so those are all of my figures... af any sienna owners here would like to double check my math and concept please chime in. much appreciated.

[ThePair]

In truth, the best possible thing to do is take it all to a scale and weigh it.

There is some argument, but in my opinion, if you're good on the GCWR and all three GAWR, that's the most important part(s) to the equation. Even Toyota in some of their literature say the same. So you can do the math all day, but the end is the actual weight

Remember, these ratings are for any kind of trailer, and that includes tall TTs as well as small pop-ups, even though the towing characteristics are very different between the two. As pointed out, stopping is more important than moving. I can say that my experiences with short stops has been quite favorable: I've stopped my combined TV + TM on a rainy road in less space/time than the SUVs around me, and it seems to be able to stop roughly like the unburdened TV, which at least tells me the brakes are functioning properly I know I can stop the whole combo with TM brakes alone, but I'm always on the flats. I do not know how it would fare on mountains or at altitude, but I have no plans to do so right now, so it's not a consideration.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by coralcrazed

I have a very important question that I hope you can answer. The 2006 manual pages 399-400 talk about towing capacity which is 3500 lbs. and continue to go into cargo capacity within the toyota (crago capacity is total occupant load and gear). what is unclear in the manual is weather or not the weight inside the TV should be subtracted from the maximum towing capacity of 3500 lbs. the responsible thing to do is try and underload and stay well under the maximum. capacity. I wonder if that is possible here and if you can clarify the above that would be great. Much appreciated.

I've always said that something so hard to figure out is something they can't possibly expect us to figure out right. There are a lot of things that go into tow ratings besides engineering, including durability and marketing questions like "How many transmissions will we have to replace under the warranty if we jack the tow rating up a bit?" And there are the liability questions they have to be worrying about, too. The GCWR should be in the owners manual in the pages on towing.

Toyota tow ratings have been evolving slightly, but the basic principle for most in old days was that the tow rating added to the GVWR to get GCWR. In other words, my Toyota Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is 4985, the tow rating is 3500, and the Gross Combined Weight Rating is 8485. Other manufacturers tell you that you have a big tow rating, and then tell you that you have to subtract all the payload in the tow vehicle from the tow rating before you get to the trailer. So, my scale numbers showed a Tow vehicle at 4460 and a trailer at 3940, which works out to less than the GCWR. Yours seems like it should come out somewhere in that same ballpark, unless you're carrying lots of people in all those seat belts.

Most important, the RV I have on the road is the most stable and safe RV combo we've ever had (we've owned popups, hard side trailers, and a 37 foot motorhome over 30+ years). Towing a TrailManor is much easier on the transmission than a full height travel trailer. The horsepower to weight ratio of the Adventuremobile/TM combo is double what we had in the motorhome. The torque to weight ratio is 1.5 times what that V10 in the motorhome offered us.

The Sienna has a very similar powerplant. The possible passenger load with all those seat belts means that it has the load carrying capacity of a half ton truck. More important to me, the Sienna owners here are not telling you any scary stories about safety or transmission failures.

It's important to travel light, carrying what you need, and traveling with your tanks empty. If you are a family of 6 with teenagers, this could be difficult

It's most important, IMO, to get rid of that brake controller. A Prodigy or P3 should cost you less than $130. The wires in the existing harness under the dash should be the same ones you need, but the end connector will be different. The installation should not be a big job.

[coralcrazed]

Originally Posted by ThePair

In truth, the best possible thing to do is take it all to a scale and weigh it.

I'l be weighing it for sure. what the calcs do is offer you a sence of awareness and some understanding into whats required... so I think its a necessary step but of course not a substitute for weighing the TV and trailer ect.

[coralcrazed]

thanks for all of your input... much appreciated. I will be looking into the prodegy.

[ThePair]

I have a P3 controller, love it. Nice display for all the information you may want, without needing to decipher any codes.

Do you, by chance, have heated front seats in your Sienna? If so, the P3 will perfectly fit into the little compartment under the thumbwheels for the seat heaters. I ran my harness up there and it's a perfect location for the controller when it's in use. When not, I pop off the wires and stow it in the lowest flip-out compartment, so it's always handy (i.e. never gets lost) but only around when I'm using it. Plus, no clampy things to bang my knees on (I am prone to doing so, for some odd reason.)

[coralcrazed]

Originally Posted by ThePair

I have a P3 controller, love it. Nice display for all the information you may want, without needing to decipher any codes.

Do you, by chance, have heated front seats in your Sienna? If so, the P3 will perfectly fit into the little compartment under the thumbwheels for the seat heaters. I ran my harness up there and it's a perfect location for the controller when it's in use. When not, I pop off the wires and stow it in the lowest flip-out compartment, so it's always handy (i.e. never gets lost) but only around when I'm using it. Plus, no clampy things to bang my knees on (I am prone to doing so, for some odd reason.)

nope don't have the heated seat. my current BC is installed to the dash.

can anyone explain to me wht the prodegy is so advansed as compared to the other BC's out in the market today? whats the advantage in it vs. others?

Just ordered the P-3 and wiring connector from etrailer at a great sale price and free shipping. Great service from this company.