windows leaking

[Bill]

Originally Posted by rbhtrail

Not all windows leak, all but the front and rear.

That's my point. If there is a small caulk failure above one window, then that window may leak. But how can the water from a single leak site get to windows that are far away, or even on the other side of the trailer? There is no path within the wall for this to happen. This makes me think that either all of the caulk is missing along the roof centerline, or all of the windows lack the water seal I mentioned. Checking for the presence of caulk all along the centerline (as opposed to a small void somewhere) is easy, since you can see it. Checking for the sealant within the window can be done, but not so easily.

As Shane826 mentioned, the window seal may indeed have been butyl tape. But whether it is tape or putty, the only way you can check for its presence is to partially dis-assemble one window. Again, I am working from a several-year-old memory here, but I recall the following. Pick a window, one that leaks, and one that is easy to get at from the inside. Inside the camper, remove the dozen or so screws that hold the inner flange /clamp ring in place. (You do own a #2 square-drive screwdriver - ahem, Robertson screwdriver - right?)

At this point, you will see a paper label on the inside structure of the window. As Shane said, either write down everything it says, or take a close-up picture of the label. You will need the long LONG number on the label if you talk to Hehr or Pelland, their sales outlet.

Now, with the inner frame removed, you should be able to push gently against the window from the inside, and it should begin to move outward. Don't push it so hard that it falls out! Once it has moved even a quarter inch, go outside, get on a stepladder, and peer down into the gap with a flashlight. If a sealant is present, you should be able to see it.

Shane, do you concur with this? As I said, it was long ago, and my memory is a bit thin.

For construction details, go to Hehr.com or Pellandent.com. Pelland Enterprises is Hehr's sales arm somehow. Get phone numbers and call both of them. I found the staff at both places to be extremely friendly and helpful. You might also find something on YouTube, such as

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K02m24R73B0

Ignore the sales pitch in the beginning. The interesting stuff starts at about the 2:00 minutes mark.

As a silly thought, is it possible that the windows were installed upside down? Are the weep holes / slots at the bottom of the window?

Bill

[Camping Carpenters]

Just a question.....if this is a new TM, should you not take it to the dealer and ask them to resolve it, or contact TM directly?

[rbhtrail]

Originally Posted by Camping Carpenters

Just a question.....if this is a new TM, should you not take it to the dealer and ask them to resolve it, or contact TM directly?

Thanks for the good question... I have been collecting a list of the new TM's deficiencies, some minor and some major and I believe, before I contact the manufacturer, I should be an expert in the problems I've incurred.
Thanks again... Bob ...

[rbhtrail]

Originally Posted by Bill

That's my point. If there is a small caulk failure above one window, then that window may leak. But how can the water from a single leak site get to windows that are far away, or even on the other side of the trailer? There is no path within the wall for this to happen. This makes me think that either all of the caulk is missing along the roof centerline, or all of the windows lack the water seal I mentioned. Checking for the presence of caulk all along the centerline (as opposed to a small void somewhere) is easy, since you can see it. Checking for the sealant within the window can be done, but not so easily.

As Shane826 mentioned, the window seal may indeed have been butyl tape. But whether it is tape or putty, the only way you can check for its presence is to partially dis-assemble one window. Again, I am working from a several-year-old memory here, but I recall the following. Pick a window, one that leaks, and one that is easy to get at from the inside. Inside the camper, remove the dozen or so screws that hold the inner flange /clamp ring in place. (You do own a #2 square-drive screwdriver - ahem, Robertson screwdriver - right?)

At this point, you will see a paper label on the inside structure of the window. As Shane said, either write down everything it says, or take a close-up picture of the label. You will need the long LONG number on the label if you talk to Hehr or Pelland, their sales outlet.

Now, with the inner frame removed, you should be able to push gently against the window from the inside, and it should begin to move outward. Don't push it so hard that it falls out! Once it has moved even a quarter inch, go outside, get on a stepladder, and peer down into the gap with a flashlight. If a sealant is present, you should be able to see it.

Shane, do you concur with this? As I said, it was long ago, and my memory is a bit thin.

For construction details, go to Hehr.com or Pellandent.com. Pelland Enterprises is Hehr's sales arm somehow. Get phone numbers and call both of them. I found the staff at both places to be extremely friendly and helpful. You might also find something on YouTube, such as

Ignore the sales pitch in the beginning. The interesting stuff starts at about the 2:00 minutes mark.

As a silly thought, is it possible that the windows were installed upside down? Are the weep holes / slots at the bottom of the window?

Bill

Hi Bill, Thanks for your well detailed considerations, process's and links, all are very helpful. As a production engineer familiar with manufacturing/troubleshooting, I feel it's my responsibility to become thoroughly acquainted with all available details on the subject prior to my engagement in a potential remedy. That being said, I'm too old to think that I know everything or that I may be overlooking something. There is always room for improvement.
Thanks Again for all your much needed thoughts... Bob... rbhtrail

[Bill]

Bob -

I was conversing with Paul at the TM factory about a different issue yesterday, and mentioned your window problem. Here is his response.

"As for the windows. We have had numerous issues which you described. We ordered from our supplier windows which were described as “universal” windows which were supposed to be left or right installable. (The windows have weep holes at the top and at the bottom.) We found out way too late that the plugs which were placed into the top weep holes (by the factory) were not sufficient and consequently resulted in what you described. We have taken care of numerous trailers just like you described.
The fix is quite simple. You have to remove the plugs at the top of each window and simply use a good quality silicone (black) and fill in the hole or gap left by the plug."

So the upside-down theory wasn't so far off !

Bill

[rbhtrail]

Originally Posted by Bill

Bob -

I was conversing with Paul at the TM factory about a different issue yesterday, and mentioned your window problem. Here is his response.

"As for the windows. We have had numerous issues which you described. We ordered from our supplier windows which were described as “universal” windows which were supposed to be left or right installable. (The windows have weep holes at the top and at the bottom.) We found out way too late that the plugs which were placed into the top weep holes (by the factory) were not sufficient and consequently resulted in what you described. We have taken care of numerous trailers just like you described.
The fix is quite simple. You have to remove the plugs at the top of each window and simply use a good quality silicone (black) and fill in the hole or gap left by the plug."

So the upside-down theory wasn't so far off !

Bill

Thanks Bill for mentioning the window leaking situation to TM's Paul...Ahhh... I was leaning in that same direction and thought about doing the same fix. Not wanting to void the manufacturers warranty or the additional warranty I purchased during the sale, I have been collecting a list of.inadequacies and planned on writing the manufacturer and sales distributor for some direction.
I've learned over the years, Nothing in production manufacturing is perfect and feedback from the field is essential to a higher level of quality assurance. Responsible manufacturers follow through with any necessary changes in order to assure their product is of the highest quality.
The actions and involvement you've undertaken while on this board is remarkable and I want to thank you for your interest, involvement and integrity, it is worthy of commending.
Thank You... Bob rbhtrail

[rbhtrail]

Hello All , I'm happy to report that Bill's suggestion of removing the factory installed rubber plugs and re-caulking on the window top's solved the leaking window problem.
The Process: After removing the rubber plug and cleaning the hole, I added black silicone into the plug's void on the top of all windows and after three heavy rains, the windows no longer leaked...

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all... Bob ...