Minivan Towing a 2720...

[scrubjaysnest]

T and C presents an interesting aspect to all this.

We have two vehicles that are big enough and have TC high enough to tow the TM.

The Grand Cherokee with 6000# TC has no front or rear bumper. We found this out when our daughter tested it at less then 5 mph against a four inch post filled with concrete. The post won The Cherokee lost 1. plastic front bumper, 1 head light housing, and the right front fender. The bug guard had to be replaced and the hood straightened. All for the lack of a real bumper.

[Dave99gst]

I would say wheelbase is prob the single most important factor in all this. Stopping power ? Properly adjusted trailer brakes should cover that. Im sure no matter what you use to tow with will still stop faster then a semi pulling an empty trailer. (no one seems to think those are unsafe)
Now of course I would love to use a Turbo Diesel extended bed quad cab powerstroke ford to tow everything, but i don't think its necessary.

I agree 100% alot of it comes down to opinion... I also think alot of it comes down to experience. With more experience behind the wheel pulling a trailer, you can most likely make due with less of a vehicle.

[rvcycleguy]

Experience is key. Just food for thought though, I have always wondered why someone with no experience can buy and jump in the drivers seat of a 40ft motorhome that will weigh 15-20k pounds or more with no additional training or certification? I am required by law have to have a motorcycle safety course, pass that test, then go to DMV and pass that test to have a M classification added to my current license. Joe and Jane Doe can drive off in an overloaded Motorhome with passengers and are not required to have any training whatsoever! I would also suggest that anyone towing with a class III hitch and above must prove they can by taking a safety course.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by Dave99gst

I would say wheelbase is prob the single most important factor in all this. Stopping power ? Properly adjusted trailer brakes should cover that. Im sure no matter what you use to tow with will still stop faster then a semi pulling an empty trailer. (no one seems to think those are unsafe)
Now of course I would love to use a Turbo Diesel extended bed quad cab powerstroke ford to tow everything, but i don't think its necessary.

I agree 100% alot of it comes down to opinion... I also think alot of it comes down to experience. With more experience behind the wheel pulling a trailer, you can most likely make due with less of a vehicle.

After playing with the numbers in the spreadsheet, I'm thinking the wheelbase question is really more about the ratio between the wheelbase and the overhang (the trailer's leverage on the tow vehicle).

But since both steering and braking traction are proportional to the weight on the front axle, I would say that the WDH is the most important factor in our equipment.

"Stopping power ? Properly adjusted trailer brakes should cover that. "

Actually, our brake controllers are "OK" but not great. In the best of circumstances, the trailer does a respectable chunk of it's own stopping. But in a full panic stop, the TV has anti-lock brakes and the controller is hopefully set so that the trailer doesn't lock. The worst of circumstances would be on slippery surfaces where neither the TV nor the trailer have good traction, and the brake controller is pretty clueless about how to improve things. I was born in Minnesota, but I won't tow on snow.

The best of brake controllers are the integrated controllers on the newer Ford & GM trucks. They know what the TV anti-lock brakes are doing, which at least gives them a sporting chance.

" Im sure no matter what you use to tow with will still stop faster then a semi pulling an empty trailer. (no one seems to think those are unsafe)"

We probably stop faster than heavy trucks, loaded or not. But they have anti-lock brakes on their trailers, and we still see them jackknifing. Heavy trucks are involved in lots of accidents, and heavy trucks have major safety issues that trucking companies, state police, and the drivers spend a lot of energy trying to manage.

"With more experience behind the wheel pulling a trailer, you can most likely make due with less of a vehicle."

A wise man once said that experience is something you think you have until you get more of it. With that humbling thought in mind, the most important single factor in towing safety is keeping speed under control for your vehicle and conditions.

I have the Prodigy controller and at the highest setting the trailer brakes will NOT lock.

Koz

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by Pitbull

I have the Prodigy controller and at the highest setting the trailer brakes will NOT lock.

Koz

We've had that discussions on other threads over the years, and like yours, mine as well won't lock on dry pavement. It's probably a good thing, in that the trailer skidding sideways behind a more sure footed TV wouldn't be the right idea.

But they will definitely lock on gravel, and probably on a wet road too.

Originally Posted by rvcycleguy

Experience is key. Just food for thought though, I have always wondered why someone with no experience can buy and jump in the drivers seat of a 40ft motorhome that will weigh 15-20k pounds or more with no additional training or certification? I am required by law have to have a motorcycle safety course, pass that test, then go to DMV and pass that test to have a M classification added to my current license. Joe and Jane Doe can drive off in an overloaded Motorhome with passengers and are not required to have any training whatsoever! I would also suggest that anyone towing with a class III hitch and above must prove they can by taking a safety course.

To pass this test the driver should demonstrate that they can back both the longest TV/trailer combo allowed by law and also the longest motor home into a camping pad, with trees on both sides and at the back.

The test should be performed on an overcast moonless night. No assistant is allowed. However, the driver is allowed to exit to check clearances as often as they wish.

There is no need for pull through sites.

The IBC in my 2008 GMC will pulse the electric power to the trailer brakes any time that ABS is engaged. I do not know what other manufacturers do. If you have an IBC, read the manual.

I refer to this as virtual ABS.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

After playing with the numbers in the spreadsheet, I'm thinking the wheelbase question is really more about the ratio between the wheelbase and the overhang (the trailer's leverage on the tow vehicle).

But since both steering and braking traction are proportional to the weight on the front axle, I would say that the WDH is the most important factor in our equipment.

"Stopping power ? Properly adjusted trailer brakes should cover that. "

Actually, our brake controllers are "OK" but not great. In the best of circumstances, the trailer does a respectable chunk of it's own stopping. But in a full panic stop, the TV has anti-lock brakes and the controller is hopefully set so that the trailer doesn't lock. The worst of circumstances would be on slippery surfaces where neither the TV nor the trailer have good traction, and the brake controller is pretty clueless about how to improve things. I was born in Minnesota, but I won't tow on snow.

The best of brake controllers are the integrated controllers on the newer Ford trucks. They know what the TV anti-lock brakes are doing, which at least gives them a sporting chance.

" Im sure no matter what you use to tow with will still stop faster then a semi pulling an empty trailer. (no one seems to think those are unsafe)"

We probably stop faster than heavy trucks, loaded or not. But they have anti-lock brakes on their trailers, and we still see them jackknifing. Heavy trucks are involved in lots of accidents, and heavy trucks have major safety issues that trucking companies, state police, and the drivers spend a lot of energy trying to manage.

"With more experience behind the wheel pulling a trailer, you can most likely make due with less of a vehicle."

A wise man once said that experience is something you think you have until you get more of it. With that humbling thought in mind, the most important single factor in towing safety is keeping speed under control for your vehicle and conditions.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by Pitbull

I have the Prodigy controller and at the highest setting the trailer brakes will NOT lock.

Koz

I have a p3, gain is set at 6, the starting value, and I use B1 for the boost. It locks the TM brakes on dry pavement. I have the flat spots to prove it when I was operating in dumb mode one time last year.

[rvcycleguy]

Excellent PopBeaver....now you are talking my kind of testing. I'm practicing this weekend!