Beware

I've watched this post since the beginning with interest, since I would like someday to upgrade to an Elkmont. And like others here I love my TM and think it is well made and the preponderance of evidence says that TM does well by their customers.

But there are two things I'd like to point out.

1. This site does not "belong" to TM. It is actually "owned" by a private individual (Chris) who used to own a TM but does no more. He puts in a lot of time on the site and deserves a lot of credit as well as the volunteer moderators who keep things in order. I'm sure some TM brass frequent here, but I suspect it is to get a sense of what customers think and how they can improve their product as opposed to looking for evidence against a customer. Don't know that for sure but it would seem logical. At any rate, it is linked from the TM site simply as a nod to the Trailblazers groups who do such a magnificant job of linking TM owners together. (someone who knows the history better might clarify this).

2. Because of the issues pointed out here (and not just this post) I visited with our local dealer at an RV show recently and asked about the problems - particularly leaks. He indicated that it seemed that the problems with the Elkmont would come in bunches - a few trailers would have problems and then a number would be problem free. May be related to adding new workers to the assembly line to meet orders or some other pressure of getting units out the door. Who knows. Elkmont is reportedly making up 22% of TM sales now. I'm sure TM is doing all they can to improve quality control with this popular unit.
He did say he had worked with one particularly problematic unit that came back 3 times for a leak. He finally essentially disassembled the unit and found a problem deeper and beyond where the symptoms indicated. It was fixed and the customer was satisfied and the company was notified about the problem.

I'll be interested in seeing the end result of this dispute and hope that curlyontop will be satisfied and will then love his TM like most of the rest of us do.

Alan

[cochise]

I fully understand curlyontop's "beware". It actually runs much deeper than everyone sees. We bought aTM Elkmont 24 2010 in September 2009, and we have had a load of problems that TrailManor just waves off. The furnace was not hooked up at all, warped doors, water leaks, LP Gas leaks, screws falling out, venetian blinds flopping around too long, sloppy workmanship all around, but the worst is probably how TM treats us. "There is no problem you just don't understand" is the answer we get/got. When we found out from Suburban Manufacturing Co. (the furnace people) that the furnace was not installed correctly I confronted TM, and got an email today, that I did not understand that it had been approved by Suburban, this in spite of a warning in their [Suburban] installation manual, that no-one can authorize a deviate from the written instructions, NO ONE!!!

To those here that think TM is a great company, it probably was when Old Man Hulsey ran it. In the spring of 2009 he had a stroke or heart attack and the son Micheal Hulsey took over the reins. His interest is not customer satisfaction. And trust me I have documentation to prove it.

I know that there are others out there that have been screwed by TM, some have come forward, and some are embarrassed to do so, but the fact remains, THEY ARE THERE.

So if anyone here can help me please come forth, I will appreciate it dearly.

Finally someone comes forward in my defense. I knew we weren't the only people out there with problems from shoddy workmanship. As I said before...BEWARE THE ELKMONT!!!!

[Bill]

OK, boys, you've had your chance to vent. If either of you has anything consturctive to say, I'd like to hear it. In the meantime, I'm not sure that two non-members with a total of 6 posts between you, all of them nasty, negative, and argumentative, have earned a lot of patience, from me at least. Considering your attitude and your approach to problems, I'm not sure you can expect a lot of help from this board, or from TM for that matter.

Do you, in fact, have anything constructive to offer? If not, please refrain from further venting.

Bill

...which is, admittedly, not a lot...

Since they are trial members, their vent fest is going to be short lived. It might be in the general communities interest to monitor potential 'trends' in TM operating practices. Granted these guys haven't done much to substantiate the claims, but we are all smart enough to figure that out.

Given the economic times, it might be worth noting that when companies are cash flush, they are a lot more likely to throw more money at making sure everyone is happy. Often this is due to the fact the funds are coming in and this is the path of least resistance. When things tighten up, the assistance can get harder to come by. This is even more likely with a private or family business than a public one with a board demanding profit margins on investments good times or bad. (This also falls into the category of "Your true character is revealed when things are tough, not when everything is easy.")

Also, when a new product is flushed out, there is always going to be a learning curve. Isn't this Elkmont a fairly new entry into the TM world? Are these problems potentially start up oriented? Or are they past that point? Both the manufacturer and the buyer ought to understand that there will be shake out issues with new products.

[cochise]

First of all, I respect you and the forum, so please respect us too. I did not join to vent, there is not enough space here to do so. However had you been at the receiving end of TM's behavior, I am pretty certain that you would have acted as we. I am fully aware of the help I can expect from TM. - ZIPPO. But for you to say that we are argumentative is not very nice. What kind of documentation do you want from me? Because I have it, both emails, letters and pictures. My furnace installation defies belief. It violates every written and un-written code, City, County, State, Federal and also RVIA, plus it is not conforming to the installation instructions from SUBURBAN MANUFACTURING. As a matter of fact I was told by them NOT to use the furnace until it had been installed per their instructions. 2 Days ago we had a serious fire in Tucson AZ where I live. A travel Trailer burned to the ground, and the occupants are in the hospital with serious burns. What caused it? A gas leak! So this is a serious problem. Compiled with all the other problems we have had I think it is "food for thoughts".
It is also worth bearing in mind that most here if not all members are owners of TM fold-down trailers. We are talking about a brand new product (and new management) at TM. So please bear with me (us), and don't jump the gun. I have personally dealt with TM since September 26, 2009, 4 days after I paid cash for my ELKMONT, and I have been kept as a mushroom. (All darkness and a lot of Horse poop). And if that is not enough, I know of 2 dealers that are authorized Tm dealers, but will not carry the TM product, as they say "there are too many problems with them [ELKMONTS]. So if you want me too I will gladly email you pictures of some or all my problems and emails too. That way you can judge for yourself.
I joined here to see if the general membership had any suggestions to dealing with a TM trailer, don't disappoint me (us) by sweeping us under the carpet. This is something that concerns ALL of us.
If it works, here is a picture of the furnace installation in MY trailer. As can be seen it is crooked and too close to combustible material and not hooked up at all. Do you think that is right?

[Wavery]

WOW!!!! That is pretty shocking.....

What was TMs response to this picture?

[cochise]

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Pictures and information on Suburban furnace ]
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:07:49 -0500
From: Michael Hulsey <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
References: <[email protected]>

This is Michael Hulsey response dated 2/26 to Suburban on the furnace issue.

The furnace should have two screws into floor. Can be removed vertically with the removal of the top cover, slid sideways with the removal of the side divider, or the sofa front can be removed to slide furnace toward center of trailer.


Here are some responses to Mr. xxxxx other comments:

His complaint about the tank repositioning was referring to the dealer's attempted installation of exhaust ducting onto the air inlet opening in the bedroom area.

We have not blamed Suburban for errors in installation. We have however, had the intended installation reviewed and approved by Suburban. Any deviations from the intended installation should be addressed by a dealer and will be paid for under warranty.

Intake air is provided around other gaps as well, including through bath cabinetry and around rear corners and sides of sofa seat. We have not had any issues with furnace performance in other Elkmonts.

Exhaust piping should be centered in the outside wall of the trailer to provide 3/8" gap all around. Dealer should check this issue.


My two cents:
If you enlarge the photo, it can clearly be seen that there is no ductwork, nor is the furnace attached to the floor or otherwise, expect for the intake/exhaust to the outside. And even IF it was screwed to the floor, how would one get it out given the small area it is placed in?
Suburban has told us NOT to use the furnace as it is not installed to code or installation instructions. They are in contact with TM about this issue and we are waiting to see what happens next. Interestingly, this is not the only issue we have with the ELKMONT. I will admit that TM had a very good idea, but has managed to completely screw it up. The workmanship is so sloppy that one might think it was put together by drunk, drug addicts and a blind foreman. It should also be noted that the answer to me came not from Mr. Lytle who holds the position as Warranty Manager, but from the owner/founders son Michael Hulsey who now runs the company.
Here is a picture of a gas line that feed the furnace from under the trailer. It has a serious kink in it as it was improperly bent not using a bending tool. That is a violation of RVIA code.

[Wavery]

This whole thing is unbelievable........ those pictures are shocking. Not only is that kinked gas pipe very unprofessional but the other pipe is bent without a bender and too close to the fitting. I'd be more worried about that one than the other one. It has a bigger leaking potential. The other bent pipe is just ugly. I'd be very concerned about that gas pipe coming through the floor, next to the water tank, as well.

I sure hope that you get some relief on this and keep in touch with us. It will be interesting to the current and future members on this site to see how they resolve this.

It would certainly be in TrailManor's best interest to address this issue in a manner that could be shared with everyone that visits this site. I think that most of their prospective customers may visit this site and this type of thing should be VERY disturbing to anyone considering the purchase of an Elkmont if it is not addressed properly. Just look at how many hits this thread has......

I'll be honest with you. My wife and I are retiring in a few years and we have been very impressed with our 12-year-old TrailManor. So much so that we have been watching the Elkmont as a possible future purchase. When we move out of our apt and into our home, we will want a full, upright TT. This type of thing has me shaking in my boots........

Good luck with your resolution to this matter.

Harvey, This is exactally what my first post was intended to be, a warning. I wasn't looking for solutions or help from you guys. I was only trying to warn those of you who have shown an interest in these units of the problems we have had ourselves. I am not at liberty on post any pictures or videos at this time. If you are happy with your TrailManor, I would stick with it. As the saying goes.....