Anyone tow a TM 3023 with a 3500 LB TV

[Padgett]

BTW was on a downhill (are some in Florida) at about 45 when the traffic light at the bottom changed. Almost too close to stop but then realized how long the rig was. NP stopping fast and stable but was concerned whether the GIB would.

ps is a BIG difference between a current Wrangler and a Wrangler Unlimited. Almost different models entirely. Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are entirely different models.

[tentcamper]

Originally Posted by Padgett

BTW was on a downhill (are some in Florida) at about 45 when the traffic light at the bottom changed. Almost too close to stop but then realized how long the rig was. NP stopping fast and stable but was concerned whether the GIB would.

ps is a BIG difference between a current Wrangler and a Wrangler Unlimited. Almost different models entirely. Cherokee and Grand Cherokee are entirely different models.

That downhill must have been coming down off the sunshine bridge. LOL

[tentcamper]

I think I would have given them the specs and asked them to verify that they can tow the TM.

I know a Toyota Sienna is rated at 350/3500 with tow package, with wdh 500/5000, they met the SAE Tow standard test, which as of last year none of the american trucks had passed the test. I assume the Odyssey has about the same specs. Both of these minivans are around 270 hp and weigh in around 4,000 lbs wet, which the weight to HP ratio looks real good for a TV.

I use to pull a heavy 31' TT in the 80 with a full size van with a V8 that delivered less HP then these minivans and was somewhere around 18-20 feet long. Gross combined weight when traveling was around 12,500 lbs and around 50 feet long. The trailer was much heaver and larger then the TV. Going through the mountains you had to work the gears and at times it was slow going. I would not thing twice doing it again.

Not sure why some people feel the TV need to be heavier than the trailer. Every day I see pickups pulling 31' TT and pickups pulling 10 to 15,000 lbs 5th wheelers, lets not forget a commercial industry, 18 wheelers pulling 50 to 80,000 lbs trailers that are much larger and heavier then the TV.

[Padgett]

Overpass over a freeway. Mustabin short on concrete.

Key to a TV is really torque and not HP, my 400/4bbl in the 72 wagon was only 200 hp & had 325 lb-ft of torque at 2800. Died above 4,000. OTOH the torque in my GC is essentially flat from 2000 to 6400 & peaks with 260 lb-ft at 4800. Also has what I consider to be the perfect stroke for a trash gas engine, 3.27"

Bottom line: with proper gearing (5 spd OD vs 3 and no lockup) the GC puts more tractive force on the pavement at any speed than the Pontiac. I consider it "enough".

[Bill]

Originally Posted by tentcamper

I know a Toyota Sienna is rated at 350/3500 with tow package, with wdh 500/5000, they met the SAE Tow standard test, which as of last year none of the american trucks had passed the test.

Wait a minute. You're talking about the SAE standard J2807 towing test. There was great interest in it a few years ago, and all the major manufacturers promised to adopt it. To the best of my knowledge, Toyota was the first - good for them. But to say that the others didn't pass it, when in fact they didn't run it, sounds like the double-speak coming out of Washington DC these days.

If indeed Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, and Nissan tried these tests and failed, then I would welcome the knowledge. But in fact there is no way to "fail". The idea was that you would run the test, and the result would be a tow rating you could advertise. They (meaning Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, or Nissan) might not like the answer, and might redesign their trucks to achieve a bigger number in the future, but they agreed that their advertising would be bound by the results.

Bill

[Redtail Cruiser]

To suggest that the Sienna is a better tow vehicle than a full size truck or Suv is a big LOL.

[tentcamper]

All I'm saying is the big 3 all said in 2009 that in a few years they would meet the SAE standard. Yes it's an assumption that all 3 tried testing the fleet internally to figure where they need to shore up the fleet. Being able to say your feet meets the SAE standard is a big marketing thing. So if in the internal test they felt they would meet the standard, there is not a manufacture that would not go ahead and complete the formal SAE test. So deductive reasoning indicated that they all did internal testing and failed to meet their published numbers.

I'm not trying to say that a toyota seinna can pull more that a pickup, nor can it pull more then a large comerical truck. I am trying to say that at their published capacity the braking, handling, long steep grade mountain inclines, etc.. They passed the SAE test test, so with confidence you should be able to pull up to those published numbers. But for pulling my TM it's a better TV then a pickup. On the flip side if you pull to max capacity of a none SAE tow rated pickup truck, I would not be confident it it capability.

Through out the years I have pulled many different trailers up to 31' using different TV's. I am very happy with a minivan for my lightweight TM and popup that was about the same weight. The minivan with it's engine placement of 95+% of the engine, transmission ahead of the front axle make it very front heavy, which make it exceptional. If you re-spring the rear and add a transmission cooler. They are exceptional.

My mini van is old with 180K. We have pulled a camper a lot including through some back road very steep mountain passes and I'm very happy with it, but could use a little more HP, which the newer one have. I'm looking at getting a new TV in the next year or so when I hit 200+K. It will be another minivan. Now if I was going back to a TT, it would be a full size pickup, suv or van.

I have talked to a lot of people pulling light weight campers with newer minivans and they all are happy with them.

[Padgett]

I used to pull cars with my 3800 Pontiac TranSport and was comfortable even at Interstate speeds. That said the GC is the best tow car I have ever had.

Only thing I would suggest is to make sure that any prospective TV have the factory towing package and that it includes a 2" (class III or IV) receiver and 7 pin Bargman connector. It will cost less in the long run.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by tentcamper

All I'm saying is the big 3 all said in 2009 that in a few years they would meet the SAE standard.

Art -

I don't think I made my point, or maybe it is just semantics. But J2807 is like stepping on a bathroom scale. It simply tells you the number you have achieved. There is no pass or fail. Of course if you had been telling your wife that you weigh 175 pounds, and the scale says 180, then you have failed to meet your own advertising. But you didn't fail a test. If you change your advertising to 180 pounds, then you are perfectly legal.

I think what you are saying - and I agree - is that the manufacturers stepped on the J2807 scale, and found that it did not read 3500 pounds of towing capacity (or whatever they had been advertising). They could have changed their advertising to 3200 pounds (or whatever) and bragged that they meet J2807, but they chose not to. My guess, like yours, is that when they got on the scale and it read 180, they chose to go a diet and get down to 175.

Sorry for the mixed metaphor. I hope it conveyed my meaning.

Bill

[w120013]

Originally Posted by Redtail Cruiser

Your Wrangler only has a 2000 lb tow rating. Your TM weighs twice that much when loaded up for camping.

I hope, for their sake, that nobody is traveling with you.

My jeep is an unlimited and has a 3500lb tow rating.