First-Time Experience

[Bill]

Originally Posted by larsdennert

Brings me to a question really. So you're ready to head out on a boondocking adventure in the winter. Fill up the water tanks and heater. Head out for a drive through the mountains to a snowy destination. What are the chances that the water will freeze en route? Anyone traveled in conditions like that with water in the TM?

I haven't tried it, but suppose that just before leaving home, you filled your tanks with hot water? Ought to last longer than cold water.

One other thing. The tank in the water heater is insulated, so it should freeze quite slowly. The fresh water tank is not insulated, so maybe wrapping a blanket around it would help. Not necessarily easy, I know, especially if the tank is under the kitchen sink.

Bill

I would be a little reluctant to fill my fresh water tank from a hot water spigot. I have had to clean out some hot water tanks, and after seeing what is in that puppy, I would not want to drink that water. And I remember something from high school science that hot water will freeze quicker than cold water......or was I just daydreaming in class?? I didn't understand that principle then, and have never figured it out since, if that is even true.

The blanket idea sounds like a plausible solution, even if you have to use cold water....which I think most ground water is around 55'F.

I wonder if there is such a thing as 12v heat wrap for pipes?? And I have seen 12v (people) blankets that are hooked up to a power outlet ....maybe that could be wrapped around the water tank, maybe just enough heat to keep it from freezing. That and the fridge on 12v would probably really tax the TV electrical system, but probably the fridge wouldn't even need to be running at those temps.

Just a'thinkn'. Do y'all smell something burning.

Chap

[Bill]

Chap -

You wouldn't drink hot water from your kitchen tap? I never thought of that.

As for a 12-volt heater, the answer is yes - in the camping stores you can buy a 12-volt heat mat. It is intended to keep the grey water tank warm, but there is no reason you couldn't slide it under your fresh water tank. Of course you need to consider the entire 12-volt load while you are towing. Of course, the refrigerator isn't drawing much power if it is so cold that you are worried about freezing the water tank! 'Spensive, though.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

Chap -

You wouldn't drink hot water from your kitchen tap? I never thought of that.

Bill

I think I am getting the "Howard Hughes Syndrome" as I get older. Too concerned about things that probably really don't matter.

Chap

No, you should absolutely not drink hot water from you kitchen tap, bathroom tap, or shower head. Anything that passes through your hot water tank is subject to contamination from the tank itself. Sacrificial anode parts, tank bottoms rusting, ... this is a very unhealthy practice. Shouldn't use hot water to cook with either, for all the same reasons, and furthermore, cooking usually involves some sort of condensing/reducing of liquids that concentrates the contaminates.

[Bill]

Jon -

Since (among other things) my dishes are washed in hot water, and in my many years I have yet to accumulate any contaminants in my body (at least from hot water!), I remain unconvinced. Remember, by the time your water gets to your house, it has already run through several miles of metal pipe. A little exposure to the inside of a glass-lined tank isn't likely to increase its burden much.

However, we have wandered off topic. The point was that if you fill your tanks with hot water, they won't freeze as fast. If you feel the need to heat that water on the stove - probably in a metal pot, by the way - well, the conclusion is the same.

Chap, it is true that when exposed to cold air, hot water will initially lose heat faster than cold water. That's because of the bigger temperature difference. But it has a lot more heat to lose, so it takes longer to freeze. Look at it this way. If you start with a bucket of 100-degree water, it takes some time to cool down to 50 degrees. Once it has gotten to that point, it will freeze in the same amount of time as any other bucket of 50 degree water.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

Chap, it is true that when exposed to cold air, hot water will lose heat faster than cold water. That's because of the bigger temperature difference. But it has a lot more heat to lose, so it takes longer to freeze. Look at it this way. If you start with a bucket of 100-degree water, it takes some time to cool down to 50 degrees. Once it has gotten to that point, it will freeze in the same amount of time as any other bucket of 50 degree water.
Bill

Ah ha, I bet that is what my high school science teacher was trying to get though my thick skull. Now I get it.

I might have understood more in class if 1 of the school beauty queens weren't sitting right beside of me.

Chap

[Bill]

Meaning no disrepect, and not wanting to start a flame war, this article is right up there with perpetual motion machines and secret 300-miles per gallon carbureters.

I'll certainly go off line with anyone who wants to discuss it, but the TMO forum is not the place.

Bill

[mjlaupp]

I don't know if there is a connection between Mpemba and DHMO but here is another Phun Link:

http://www.dhmo.org/

Mike

Originally Posted by Bill

Jon -

Since (among other things) my dishes are washed in hot water, and in my many years I have yet to accumulate any contaminants in my body (at least from hot water!), I remain unconvinced. Remember, by the time your water gets to your house, it has already run through several miles of metal pipe. A little exposure to the inside of a glass-lined tank isn't likely to increase its burden much.

However, we have wandered off topic. The point was that if you fill your tanks with hot water, they won't freeze as fast. If you feel the need to heat that water on the stove - probably in a metal pot, by the way - well, the conclusion is the same.

Chap, it is true that when exposed to cold air, hot water will initially lose heat faster than cold water. That's because of the bigger temperature difference. But it has a lot more heat to lose, so it takes longer to freeze. Look at it this way. If you start with a bucket of 100-degree water, it takes some time to cool down to 50 degrees. Once it has gotten to that point, it will freeze in the same amount of time as any other bucket of 50 degree water.

Bill

Except for the special case of water that has been boiled. Boiled water has less air trapped in it, resulting in faster cooling and freezing. But, that is a liitle more advanced than a basic physics course.