New Here: Towing Capacity and Hitch Recommendations

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Wavery

The gross trailer weight is 3800#, as you mentioned, the "towed weight" is 3300#.

I'd be real careful about that conclusion. Depends on what you are going to do with it, I suppose. But the tow vehicle has to contend with all 3800 pounds. It has to start it, stop it, tug it up long grades, keep the engine cool, keep the transmission cool, keep it under control in emergency situations. None of this changed by simply moving the weight around. You should not conclude that moving weight around makes things easier on the tow vehicle. In fact, the hitch weight makes things worse, by stressing all the rear end components.

There is a reason why car/truck manufacturers specify towing capacity, and why they offer (and often require) factory-installed towing equipment packages. And the SAE's new towing spec J-2807 does not make any distinction based on where you put the weight. Nor should we.

Bill

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Bill

I'd be real careful about that conclusion. Depends on what you are going to do with it, I suppose. But the tow vehicle has to contend with all 3800 pounds. It has to start it, stop it, keep the engine cool, keep the transmission cool, keep it under control in emergency situations. None of this changed by simply moving the weight around. In fact, the hitch weight makes things worse, by stressing all the rear end components.

There is a reason why car/truck manufacturers specify towing capacity, and why they offer (and often require) factory-installed towing equipment packages. And the SAE's new towing spec J-2807 does not make any distinction based on where you put the weight. Nor should we.

Bill

The "Towed weight" is the weight behind the trailer hitch. The other 500# (in this example) is part of the overall "Payload weight". That is an important distinction because it effects a different part of the total CGVW.

It is all part of the package that the vehicle has to pull around and (more importantly) STOP..... The "payload weight" effects the running parts of the vehicle, like bearings, tires etc. The "Towed weight" effects only the work that has to be done. It has it's own set of tires, bearings and suspension.

No one is saying that the towed weight doesn't effect the overall wear & tear and performance of the tow vehicle. It's just a distinction that is valid.

[Bill]

It's just a distinction that is valid.

Not to be argumentative, but I don't understand the value of this distinction. You followed it up by saying "The "Towed weight" effects only the work that has to be done." Really? Does that mean that the tow vehicle doesn't have to do the work of starting, stopping, hill climbing, etc? Of course not. But if I am a newbie, and don't quite understand what is going on, and people keep asking me about the weight of my trailer, and the ability of my tow vehicle to handle that weight, what is my conclusion? My first conclusion is that a lighter trailer is better. And that leads me to think that if I can lighten my trailer by, for example, moving some weight around, that is a good thing. If I can reduce my 3800-pound trailer to 3300 pounds, as shown and confirmed by a real scale, I have improved things.

I agree that GCWR is a most important spec - but how many times do people sit around the campfire talking about GCWR, as opposed to the never-ending talk about weight? I think that by making this "valid distinction", you are setting new owners up for problems.

'Nuff. Either I've made my point, or I haven't.

Bill

[Shane826]

What Wavery is saying makes sense, and I hadn’t thought about it that way. Bill, remember that tongue weight is accounted for in the GVWR. And also remember as actual payload goes up, tow capacity has to go down to stay within GCWR. 500lbs tongue weight would be no different than carrying 500lbs of teenagers in the back seat (weight distribution not withstanding).

[oldporkchops]

Originally Posted by KEngen

Oldporkchops ... your name just cracks me up! Thank you for the video link. Awesome!

Would it have cracked you up if it was "youngporkchops"?

Jokes aside, I personally found these two videos helpful in understanding load distribution and sway, and hope you'll glean a thing or two from them too. The video creator has many other excellent videos on sway.

https://youtu.be/JeEEC5eVNCk

https://youtu.be/nc0ndz92IWY

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by oldporkchops

Would it have cracked you up if it was "youngporkchops"?

Jokes aside, I personally found these two videos helpful in understanding load distribution and sway, and hope you'll glean a thing or two from them too. The video creator has many other excellent videos on sway.

https://youtu.be/JeEEC5eVNCk

https://youtu.be/nc0ndz92IWY

Those videos are great for helping owners understand the effects and causes of sway. However, they have very little to do with the TrailManor because of it's basic design. You'll notice, in both videos, that the example trailer has a centrally located axle (as do most trailers). The axle on TrailManors are located well aft of the centerline which changes the dynamics tremendously. This axle being farther back increases the tongue weight of the trailer and because of the interior design of the trailer (in tow configuration) there is very little that can be done to overload the trailer behind the axle unless someone attaches an extension behind the rear bumper (like a bike rack or generator or other weight). In that case, the owner is removing tongue weight and increasing the possibility of sway.

[HoMiPa]

I'm going to chime in here, and many will probably not like my response. But in the early years of my 2005 3023, we towed with a Chrysler Town & Country that was towing equipped (which means all those things, like a heavy duty radiator) and had zero issues. This was only 4 people - 2 adults and 2 children. But we towed it from VA to NH, and from VA to MO - a few times each, which meant some mountains on those trips. I used, and still use (use) a trunnion style weight distribution hitch.

Without a factory tow package, I think the cost involved in bringing a TV up to par would be cost prohibitive?

I tow with an Expedition now, and most times I forget the damn thing is even back there...

[HoMiPa]

Originally Posted by Wavery

This axle being farther back increases the tongue weight of the trailer and because of the interior design of the trailer (in tow configuration) there is very little that can be done to overload the trailer behind the axle unless someone attaches an extension behind the rear bumper (like a bike rack or generator or other weight). In that case, the owner is removing tongue weight and increasing the possibility of sway.

Yup, and I can attest to that. I have a receiver hitch on the back of my TM, and way back when had a bike rack with 4 bikes. Lordy that was a mistake. It wasn't so much that it caused sway, but it sure as heck caused bounce.

[Hnugejnt11]

I too have a Honda Ridgeline (2022) and we are looking into purchasing a 2720QS. I have been concerned about going over the mountain passes in Colorado. Any issues with pulling uphill, and more importantly braking when going downhill? What type/model brake controller do you have?

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Hnugejnt11

I too have a Honda Ridgeline (2022) and we are looking into purchasing a 2720QS. I have been concerned about going over the mountain passes in Colorado. Any issues with pulling uphill, and more importantly braking when going downhill? What type/model brake controller do you have?

I bought a used Honda Ridgeline this January because of it's 4WD and 5000# towing capacity. The 1st thing that I do when buying a used vehicle is change all of the fluids and do a COMPLETE brake job. I replaced all 4-brake pads, calipers and rotors on the Ridgeline about 500 miles prior to this trip. I towed our 2720SL up the coast and back and was happy with the towing ability. Climbing hills was not an issue.

The next trip, I was coming down a grade (probably 4%) at about 50mph, near town and a traffic light at the bottom of the grade turned yellow. I was right in that sweet spot where I could have floored it and probably made it through but I decided to stop for the light, as I got closer to the intersection, it became clear that I needed to really get on the brakes and I could not stop it. The truck went right into the middle of the intersection. Thankfully, no one was entering the intersection but it was still pretty alarming.

My trailer has recently new brake assemblies also (around 500 miles on them). I always brake check and adjust the trailer brake controller before and during each trip. My first thought was that the electric trailer brakes must have quit working (it happens with electric brakes). As I left that intersection, I checked the adjustment on my brake controller and it was good. The trailer brakes were working fine.

The next week, I bought a Chevy Silverado 1500 and that solved the braking problem. The Ridgeline is now for sale. They are a great truck and the most comfortable I've ever driven. The 5000# tow rating is a bit of a stretch though. The Ridgeline is more like a passenger car feel. It just can't stop a heavy load in a panic stop.

I have been towing all sorts of trailers (including TrailManors) with all kinds of vehicles for over 50-years and hundreds of thousands of miles, so that little mishap was not a case of inexperience.