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05-05-2011, 04:45 PM
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#21
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Guest
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The prodigy measure the rate that you are decelerating and adjusts accordingly.
Time based controllers just keep increasing the brakes based on how long your foot has been on the pedal.
Slamming on the brakes with a time base BC will result in almost no trailer braking.
Someone else may post more details.
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05-05-2011, 07:01 PM
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#22
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralcrazed
can anyone explain to me wht the prodegy is so advansed as compared to the other BC's out in the market today? whats the advantage in it vs. others?
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The brake controller knows only 2 things: 1) whether the brake pedal is depressed (the controller gets it from the brake light sensor switch which turns on the brake lights in the back), and 2) an inertial sensor inside the controller detects when the car is being decelerated (or pointed down hill, too).
Even the dumbest brake controllers know not to brake without both affirmative answers, but the smarter ones are also able to be more logical about things. The trick is to have the brakes working proportionally as you need them without overdoing it or underdoing it.
This thread from the forum library does a great job of explaining the details. Even though it was posted in 2005, it's still pretty accurate: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ake+controller
The worst things about timed/progressive controllers: 1) They delay taking your braking actions seriously in order to avoid the situation where the trailer brakes are causing the deceleration sensor to think the braking is you, not it, and thereby braking even harder and going into it's own viscous cycle panic stop, and 2) In a long descent, if you were to apply the brakes lightly but continuously for a long time, the trailer brakes will keep braking harder until the trailer brakes are doing lots of the braking for both vehicles. While this does result in stopping, it can overheat the trailer brakes or put the trailer wheels into a skid (locked trailer wheels are something you really don't want, because locked wheels are just as happy going sideways as fore and aft). For Uhaul, I'm sure the timed controllers provide for easy adjustments, and the wild variations in trailer loads in the course of a weekend with a Uhaul trailer would make our carefully crafted Prodigies much harder for people to know how to use (unlike theirs, our trailers weigh pretty much the same all the time).
The best thing about the Prodigy and the P3 is that they also have you tell them how heavy the trailer is relative to the tow vehicle so that they can use that in a much smarter way to "read" the inertial sensor and make a much better guess about what's going on, and the trailer brakes are more effective.
Of course, trailer brakes are never as good as those wonderful traction controlled antilock brakes on our tow vehicles.
__________________
2005 TrailManor 3023
2003 Toyota Highlander 220hp V6 FWD
Reese 1000# round bar Weight Distributing Hitch
Prodigy brake controller.
"It's not how fast you can go, it's how fast you can stop an RV that counts."
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05-05-2011, 11:07 PM
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#23
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BannedUsers
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopBeavers
The prodigy measure the rate that you are decelerating and adjusts accordingly.
Time based controllers just keep increasing the brakes based on how long your foot has been on the pedal.
Slamming on the brakes with a time base BC will result in almost no trailer braking.
Someone else may post more details.
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how can I tell if my break controller is a time based controller? anyone know? its a journey HD from U-haul.
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05-05-2011, 11:16 PM
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#24
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BannedUsers
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure
The brake controller knows only 2 things: 1) whether the brake pedal is depressed (the controller gets it from the brake light sensor switch which turns on the brake lights in the back), and 2) an inertial sensor inside the controller detects when the car is either being decelerated (or pointed down hill, too).
Even the dumbest brake controllers know not to brake without both affirmative answers, but the smarter ones are also able to be more logical about things. The trick is to have the brakes working proportionally as you need them without overdoing it or underdoing it.
This thread from the forum library does a great job of explaining the details. Even though it was posted in 2005, it's still pretty accurate: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ake+controller
The worst things about timed/progressive controllers: 1) They delay taking your braking actions seriously to avoid the situation where the trailer brakes are causing the deceleration sensor to think the braking is you, not it, and thereby braking even harder and going into it's own viscous cycle panic stop, and 2) In a long descent, if you were to apply the brakes lightly but continuously for a long time, the trailer brakes will keep braking harder until the trailer brakes are doing lots of the braking for both vehicles. While this does result in stopping, it can overheat the trailer brakes or put the trailer wheels into a skid (locked trailer wheels are something you really don't want, because locked wheels are just as happy going sideways as fore and aft). For Uhaul, I'm sure the timed controllers provide for easy adjustments, and the wild variations in trailer loads in the course of a weekend with a Uhaul trailer would make our carefully crafted Prodigies much harder for people to know how to use (unlike theirs, our trailers weigh pretty much the same all the time).
The best thing about the Prodigy and the P3 is that they also have you tell them how heavy the trailer is relative to the tow vehicle so that they can use that in a much smarter way to "read" the inertial sensor and make a much better guess about what's going on, and the trailer brakes are more effective.
Of course, trailer brakes are never as good as those wonderful traction controlled antilock brakes on our tow vehicles.
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thank you for that throught explination. really understand why a P3 is that way to go. Now I just need to see if U-haul will accept a return on thier BC again thanks Oh and I really appreciate you linking me to that post. I will read through it now
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05-06-2011, 04:53 AM
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#25
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coralcrazed
how can I tell if my break controller is a time based controller? anyone know? its a journey HD from U-haul.
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A time delay controller is at it's best in applications where trailers are pretty light relative to their tow vehicles, where you can already stop pretty well without much help from the trailer brakes. They are never good for travel trailers in general, because timed controllers tend to under-brake early in the stop and over-brake on longer stops. And, because travel trailers are pretty heavy, you need all the help you can get. A Proportional brake controller tries to apply the brakes in proportion to how hard the stop feels, as opposed to how long you have the brake lights on.
To tell what kind a given controller is, you usually have to read the description carefully (it's a clue when they offer "ramp" settings). A big place like etrailer.com will categorize them for you:
Timed: http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Brak...ontroller.aspx
Proportional: http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Brak...ontroller.aspx
There are many discussions about brake controllers in this forum. Here's one I remember from not too long ago: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...d.php?t=10938&
__________________
2005 TrailManor 3023
2003 Toyota Highlander 220hp V6 FWD
Reese 1000# round bar Weight Distributing Hitch
Prodigy brake controller.
"It's not how fast you can go, it's how fast you can stop an RV that counts."
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05-06-2011, 08:30 AM
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#26
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Guest
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If you google the Journey, I think you'll find that it's a time delayed controller.
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05-06-2011, 09:07 AM
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#27
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BannedUsers
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhawk
If you google the Journey, I think you'll find that it's a time delayed controller.
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yup did that... and it is in face a time delay POG
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05-10-2011, 12:37 PM
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#28
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Guest
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[QUOTE=
Of course, trailer brakes are never as good as those wonderful traction controlled anti-lock brakes on our tow vehicles.[/QUOTE]
On my 3008 GMC 2500HD truck, when tow haul mode is engaged and the ABS brakes activate, the on-board computer in the truck pulses the electric power to the trailer brakes.
I call this virtual ABS.
Not all tow vehicles have this feature. My 2002 Chevy 1500HD does not.
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05-11-2011, 05:57 AM
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#29
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopBeavers
On my 3008 GMC 2500HD truck, when tow haul mode is engaged and the ABS brakes activate, the on-board computer in the truck pulses the electric power to the trailer brakes.
I call this virtual ABS.
Not all tow vehicles have this feature. My 2002 Chevy 1500HD does not.
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This would be the best of trailer braking possibilities, of course. I hope you don't need to test it in earnest, but I'd love to know more about how well this works.
__________________
2005 TrailManor 3023
2003 Toyota Highlander 220hp V6 FWD
Reese 1000# round bar Weight Distributing Hitch
Prodigy brake controller.
"It's not how fast you can go, it's how fast you can stop an RV that counts."
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05-11-2011, 07:04 AM
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#30
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopBeavers
On my 3008 GMC 2500HD truck, when tow haul mode is engaged and the ABS brakes activate, the on-board computer in the truck pulses the electric power to the trailer brakes.
I call this virtual ABS.
Not all tow vehicles have this feature. My 2002 Chevy 1500HD does not.
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My Ford F150 has a version of this. It is part of the anti sway feature. It will automatically apply brakes on one side or the other to bring trailer sway under control.
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