Tow TR2720 with Chrysler mini van

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

... that advice went out the window when I added 500 pounds of motorcycles...

I'm thinking the motorcycles and ATV's are involved in the problem. But at least they won't be unloading the front axle.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

I'm thinking the motorcycles and ATV's are involved in the problem. But at least they won't be unloading the front axle.

I had not thought about that. Of course, you are correct.

The ATV and motorcycle is loaded over the axle. Some weight goes to the forward axle of the truck and some goes to the rear. Actually, most of it goes to the rear.

I just returned from a 1500 mile trip to NC. Not a long trip and not the Rockies, but my 3500 lbs rated Venza started and stopped just fine. The six speed trany shifted down comfortably on some of the long hills, but managed it well with 3 adults and moderate amount of supplies.
And my gas mileage was not much less than when I am not towing, as I averaged about 18-20 mpg, not bad for a awd vehicle.

[Mr. Adventure]

I was going to pull up some stats on the Venza and the Chrysler T&C for 2013. Theoretically, the new tow ratings should be bringing us standards that are more meaningful and able to more accurately anticipate a real world towing experience.

Unfortunately, it's still apples and oranges. The Chrysler brochure doesn't talk about tow ratings. The third party site I went to shows a tow capacity of 3500, a hefty 6000+# GVWR and 268hp, but it also posts a 7000# GCWR that's only 2300# above the published curb weight. With sloppy information like this, there aren't going to be accuratte answers for RVers.

Toyota stands with what it's been saying the last few years in the towing guide: observe the limits for GVWR, GAWRs, and rated tow capacity. They don't publish GCWR numbers, but by inference, GCWR would have to be no less than GVWR + tow capacity.

There's no way to know from the printed pages about tradeoffs between TV and trailer payloads. You can't tell how much of a tow rating is based on frontal area of a hypothetical trailer, transmission durability, or braking. We know both mathematically and in practice that the WDH is very important for safety and stability, but people with big boats and small vehicles never use WDH's, yet they are using the same towing capacity numbers that we do. Hopefully all this will get better as manufacturers get more comfortable with the new standards.

But for now, we're left where we've been before the 2013 standards. We're still seeing suspiciously round numbers like 3500# and 5000# for tow ratings, the kind of calculations they do in marketing rather than the way the engineering calculations come out. We still need to weigh our vehicles on truck scales to actually know what we're doing. And owner experience is really important, because we are all still left to figure a lot of this out empirically.

I would caution those looking to justify their tow vehicle by finding one or two people that have had positive experiences with the same vehicle. Pulling the TM from one place to another with out braking down is not an indicator that you are OK towing your TM for any period of time. I towed a motorcycle with a full sized Jeep once in the mtns of NY with only minor inconveniences on long hills. Several months later the transmission required a total replacement. Even with my current TV ( see signature) my stopping dist on a standard load camping trip is longer than with the TV alone. I don't wish to discourage anyone from becoming a TM owner, but there is a distinction between pulling your TM around and safely towing it. I have seen a person pull a Boeing 737 down a runway with his teeth but I would not consider that towing.

I met a family several years ago while camping at Lake Almanor. They had a TT but not a TM.

They kept the TT at home in California's Central Valley all winter, because it snows at the lake but not at home.

They have a seasonal site at the lake. So in the spring they tow the trailer up to the lake and in the fall they tow it back home.

For their situation, they do not need a very large tow vehicle.

If you stay close to home on flatlands then you can get by with much less. If I wanted to stay close to home I would just stay home. My minimum trip distance is 150 miles one way. I also have an elevation gain of 6,000 feet, which is impossible is some states.

The campsite that I like the most, in a campground no less, requires that I cross a dry creek bed. Sometimes for Memorial weekend it is not dry.

Sometimes it snows Memorial weekend. Setting up in dry weather and waking up to find snow all around is a bit of a surprise.

Way too many parameters to even think about what is the smallest TV that I can get by with.

However, I do understand that my budget is not everyone else's budget. I can afford to pay the price for the larger tow vehicles.

But it still makes me nervous when I see some of the setups that are around me.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by rumbleweed

... Several months later the transmission required a total replacement ...

Durability is an open question for everyone, in that it's something you think you have, until you don't. The manufacturer of my 1991 Taurus wasn't going to tell me that it would need 3 transmissions per 100,000 miles without ever towing anything. But owners in a forum like this would.

...there is a distinction between pulling your TM around and safely towing it...

Indeed. Just like durability, safety is also something we'd like to think we already have, until we don't. While the markings on the drivers' side doorpost are important, the overwhelming factor in safety is in the seat behind the steering wheel (something like 90% of vehicle accidents are caused by driver errors, not equipment failures). Because of this, the humbling statistics suggest that the most likely safety problem you might encounter is tied closely to a person very close to home.

The safety lessons we learn need to be treasured and shared in this forum, and they would be very hard to find published otherwise. I think we probably do a pretty good job of sharing information about our equipment failures, which is why I value owner experience so highly. Over the past decade or so we've had posts here representing thousands of owner-years, but only a couple of serious TM accident reports, which I take as a pretty good safety record overall.

There are many TM owners who have towed their TM 's many miles safely with 3500 lb rated tow vehicles as indicated on this forum and other places. Depending on the tv, modifications like transmission coolers may make good sense. Using a wdh is also a good idea in many situations. A good driver driving at the proper speed for conditions is a plus at all times.
Some might only feel comfortable towing a TM with a Humvee or a ton truck. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat or safely tow a TM.

Originally Posted by moaboy

There are many TM owners who have towed their TM 's many miles safely with 3500 lb rated tow vehicles as indicated on this forum and other places. Depending on the tv, modifications like transmission coolers may make good sense. Using a wdh is also a good idea in many situations. A good driver driving at the proper speed for conditions is a plus at all times.
Some might only feel comfortable towing a TM with a Humvee or a ton truck. However, there is more than one way to skin a cat or safely tow a TM.

I think it would be interesting for you and I to have a stopping contest.

You load up the TM anyway you like. I load up to match. Leave both TVs empty. I will heavier than you because of the vehicle weight.

Then we drive on a flat straight road at 55 mph (California legal limit), take your hands off of the steering wheel and slam the brake pedal to the floor until stopped.

Compare results.

I have made a panic stop similar to this. But I did have one hand on the wheel, but I found no need to correct any steering.

Without running a test we will never know. But my gut tells me I will stop sooner and possibly straighter.

Why would this ever happen in real life? Hold a cup of coffee in one hand and suddenly notice that the car in front of you skidded to a stop for no apparent reason.

Let's not argue about my cup of coffee while towing.

I'm just thinking out loud.

I have to report that this past spring I sadly traded in my 24 foot when extended 2720sl Trailmanor in for a 24 foot travel trailer with a slide. After parking the Trailmanor in my garage for free, I was soon faced with rental parking of as much as $180 a month. I moved my new trailer out of town and I now only pay $50 a month to store it, but I have to drive 45 minutes to pick it up. To me the ability to park the Trailmanor in my 21 foot long double garage was the greatest benefit. I also use 50% more gas with the travel trailer, but my wife is now happy she does not have to climb over me into the bed which was probably her biggest beef along with making the bed. The Trailmanor was great and is still a good invention and since I paid ahead for about 3 years on the forum I still find it interesting to hear all the good tips and things.
I first had a 3000 lb 17 foot travel trailer and then got the 4000 lb Trailmanor and now have a 6000 lb trailer and I am on my fourth truck since 2004, having gone from a 3500 lb capacity Explorer, to a 5000 lb Trailblazer, to a 5200 lb capacity half ton Yukon SUV and now to a 3/4 ton pickup truck with a 9400 lb capacity. Normally most Explorers are also 5000 lbs but the one I bought had the Class 2 hitch and was rated at 3500 lbs. Even though there is not much difference in towing capacity with the Explorer (no heavy tow pkg), Trailblazer and Yukon (no heavy tow pkg) as you move up to the bigger and more powerful SUV/truck you can feel the handling, braking and stability improve pulling the Trailmanor. Even the speed you can travel comfortably goes up from 60, to 65 to 70 etc with the Explorer,Trailblazer and then to the Yukon. I don't recommend going over 65 mph but what I mean is that if the speed creeps up, then it is still stable. If I still had a Trailmanor and attached it to my new 3/4 ton GMC crew cab, I probably would not even notice that I was towing anything. I know there has been a lot of talk about getting a tow vehicle that has a 5000 lb towing capacity for the Trailmanor. Since I live on the west coast and always tow in the mountains, I would not recommend anything less. When I bought my new 5000 to 6000 lb trailer in California/Arizona I loaded the trailer lightly to probably about 5200 lbs which was supposedly the capacity of my Yukon. It was not fun driving the trailer back to Canada since it was windy the whole way and we experienced a lot of trailer sway. That is when I upgraded to the 3/4 ton long wheel base pickup truck. Even with the new 3/4 ton, which may seems like overkill, the trailer and my truck weigh 13,000 lb which is still about 80 % of my rated combined combination vehicle weight of 16,000 lbs. It is a very stable combination, with also a high braking capacity with 8000 lbs on the truck axles and 5000 lbs on the trailer axles. If you want to maneuver corners in peace and have your truck pulling the trailer rather than the trailer pushing you around, then you should get a 5000 lb tow vehicle to tow a 4000 lb Trailmanor (80% rule). In the end, it will save you money in purchasing new vehicles later, especially in the mountains. Another vote for the 5000 lb capacity or more tow vehicle. That's my story and thanks for all the help and tips over the years.