How do you adjust your Brake Controler

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

I had forgotten something I read in my truck owner's manual, so I looked it up again.

The Integrated Trailer Brake Control System is integrated with your vehicles brake, anti-lock brake and StabileTrak (if equipped) systems. In trailering conditions that use your vehicle's anti-lock or StabiliTrak systems to activate, power sent to the trailer's brakes will be automatically adjusted to minimize trailer wheel lock-up.

I think that what this means is that if I slam on the brakes, resulting in the ABS taking control and pulsing the brakes to just barely avoid skidding the truck wheels, then it also reduces the braking power to the trailer to at least attempt to avoid having the trailer skid.

I have not tested this feature. But it sounds interesting.

The good news is that the brake controller is paying attention to the ABS system, though we don't know how it gets the message or what the message is. The bad news is that on the trailer end it's still the same brakes and there are no sensors back there to tell the controller if/when lockup is happening. So it must be either dialing down the trailer brake response in hopes of preventing lockup or blindly trying to pulse the trailer brakes in an attempt to be helpful when the TV ABS activates. I have no idea if/how well either of these would actually work, but they sound like good ideas to try.

Real ABS would buy us a little shorter stop and give us better road control. But ABS is no panacea either, providing an increased risk of rollovers and actually longer stopping distances under some conditions (here's a study with some interesting observations, even though it's a little dated: http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/repor...ectiveness.pdf).

Regardless, driving 60 instead of 70 or 65 instead of 75 should give us a shorter stopping distance than anything a new controller can do for our existing trailer braking systems.

Originally Posted by brulaz

I'm beginning to think your factory integrated brake controller is the way to go.

Not only for its ABS integration, but because you can run your controller on the same setting at slow speeds as highway speeds without all the lurching we Prodigy owners are complaining about (?). I bet your factory controller internally modifies its operation based on vehicle speed.

Sounds like a true set-and-forget solution.

Does it monitor current rather than voltage so it can tell if one of the trailer brakes is disconnected?

As far as I know, i does not monitor current.

I periodically will manually engage the TM brakes, just to make sure that they are working. This does not verify that both sides are working, nor does it verify that they are breaking at the proper rate.

Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure

The good news is that the brake controller is paying attention to the ABS system, though we don't know how it gets the message or what the message is. The bad news is that on the trailer end it's still the same brakes and there are no sensors back there to tell the controller if/when lockup is happening. So it must be either dialing down the trailer brake response in hopes of preventing lockup or blindly trying to pulse the trailer brakes in an attempt to be helpful when the TV ABS activates. I have no idea if/how well either of these would actually work, but they sound like good ideas to try.

Real ABS would buy us a little shorter stop and give us better road control. But ABS is no panacea either, providing an increased risk of rollovers and actually longer stopping distances under some conditions (here's a study with some interesting observations, even though it's a little dated: http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/repor...ectiveness.pdf).

Regardless, driving 60 instead of 70 or 65 instead of 75 should give us a shorter stopping distance than anything a new controller can do for our existing trailer braking systems.

On one occasion, I had to hit the brakes hard on a wet paved road going downhill. This was northbound on the Waldo Grade for those familiar with it. This was in my 1997 Dakota with ABS front only. No cargo in the bed.

I is high enough that I can see several cars ahead easily. When I saw multiple brake lights I hit the brakes hard enough to engage ABS. I have no doubt that I hit the brakes sooner than the guy in front of me.

It is not often that you have the opportunity to hit a Mercedez driven by a lawyer.

No damage to my truck at all. I dented the chrome trim around the trunk.

He probably had ABS all around and more weight on the rear tires than I did.

Yes, I should have been further back, but this is California. We have bumper to bumper traffic at 65 mph. Not all cities have that situation. If you leave a gap longer than 1.5 car lengths, someone will fill the gap for sure. No single and no warning either.

Rather rude. I was taught to signal for 5 seconds before making a lane change. Some drivers don't do that. Some drivers close the gap if they see turn signals.

[T and C]

Originally Posted by T and C

Folks,

I think I might have hit on the answer as to why the Prodigy controller does not cause the brakes to lock up while adjusting the level. I just bought a new truck. While reading the owner's manual section about adjusting the brake control, I spotted this:

"If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lockup may not be attainable even with the maximum gain setting of 10." This is referring to the Ford controller specifically, but....

I began thinking about the reason for this. The Prodigy directions are GENERAL, intended to fit most travel trailers, not TM's specifically. Most travel trailers have TWO axles. The TM has one. Since most TM's weigh in, loaded, at 4-5000 pounds, that means that the ONE axle on the trailer manor is carrying all the weight! So, the force downward on each tire is DOUBLE that of a two axle trailer!

That means that the little patch where the rubber meets the road on the bottom of the tire is being pushed down, by the weight of the trailer, with the force that you would find on a tire of an 8-10,000 pound trailer that has two axles. This would result in having MAJOR traction on our two tire trailers. No wonder they won't lock up.

Seems to me that this also helps to explain the blowout problem so many have experienced.

Does this make sense to the rest of you? If I have erred in my thinking, please correct me.

Tom

Today I went down to Custom RV to deal with some registration issues. I explained the above theory to Matt. He agreed with me about the traction. However, he was of the opinion that if you adjust the controller to its highest level of boost and then do the 25 mph thing, you should be able to lock the wheels.

He also told me that each corner jack is rated at 5000 pounds. So we should be able to use the jacks to change tires w/o a bottle jack or floor jack.

Tom

Originally Posted by T and C

Today I went down to Custom RV to deal with some registration issues. I explained the above theory to Matt. He agreed with me about the traction. However, he was of the opinion that if you adjust the controller to its highest level of boost and then do the 25 mph thing, you should be able to lock the wheels.

He also told me that each corner jack is rated at 5000 pounds. So we should be able to use the jacks to change tires w/o a bottle jack or floor jack.

Tom

You will likely not be able to lift one side of the TM by using a cordless drill. Make sure you have your hand crank with you for the corner jacks.

I was successful the one time I have a blowout. The jack in my 1500HD and Dakota would not go up high enough.

make sure you have something that will work before you leave home.

I too have tried but never been able to get my 2007 2720sl trailer brakes to lock up so I have tended to go to the higher settings of at least 9. but don't know if this is right. To improve my overall braking performance, if I have an extra 200 lbs of tool boxes and water and stuff to carry, I put it on the back seat floor of my chevy trailblazer such that the 4 disc brakes on my truck handle the additional weight rather than counting on the trailer brakes. I have a lot more confidence in my truck's brakes than the trailer brakes, although I have not had any problems with the new prodigy controller. When I had an old tekonsha 2 type setting controller, I did not know how to set it properly, and did not have my trailer brakes on hardly at all one summer, and had a couple of scarey moments when the trailer tried to push me around a curve and another time when I tried to stop fast in a traffic jam. I really like the new prodigy type controller, but I still put more faith in my trucks brakes so try and put a few of the heavier items in my truck.

[Bill]

The easy answer is that, with the trailer hooked up, ordinary stopping should feel just like it does when the trailer is not hooked up. In the ideal world, this would happen at all speeds. But we don't live in the ideal world. So you try to hit a middle ground that is safe and effective.

If you come to a red light intersection at a speed like 40 mph, and apply the brakes as you usually do, and the trailer tries to push you into the intersection - well, the controller isn't adjusted high enough. On the other hand, if you come up to the same red light, and apply the brakes as you normally do, and your nose hits the steering wheel - well, you might back off on the controller a bit.

To me, this is the proper way to set it up, because this covers most of the stopping situations you will encounter. But the trailer brakes and the truck brakes do not track exactly - it is the difference between disc brakes (tow vehicle) and drum brakes (trailer). You will likely find that at low speeds, the trailer brakes too much. That's annoying, but not dangerous. And at high speeds, it may brake too little. That's what the manual lever is for - help it give you extra braking power. Of course, this requires a bit of practice, so you can hit the lever without fumbling for it.

Just my experience -

Bill

Originally Posted by T and C

Today I went down to Custom RV to deal with some registration issues. I explained the above theory to Matt. He agreed with me about the traction. However, he was of the opinion that if you adjust the controller to its highest level of boost and then do the 25 mph thing, you should be able to lock the wheels.

...
Tom

Hi Tom,

I too had a very similar issue, I just couldn't get enough stopping power from my electric brakes. When my RV was new, Custom RV installed my DrawTite timer based controller and my brakes worked fine, but then seemed less effective over time. Adjustments did not seem to help much, if at all. Then I noticed the last couple trips they just didn't seem to be working much at all. I decided to get to the bottom of this and felt a good brake job/upgrade was needed. After upgrading my brake assemblies to Dexter self-adjusting type and a new Prodigy controller, I finally found the real problem. It was the GROUND wire installed by the dealer.

They did not connect the controller ground directly to the battery as the instructions specifically state. Instead they ran a shorter wire through the firewall and used a painted screw with painted washer into the painted wheel well in the engine compartment. A horrible connection! I realize any GOOD ground would work, this was NOT a good ground.

I only found this problem because I upgraded my controller to the Prodigy and as it initialized it showed flaky numbers, then gave the error code for Bad Battery Ground. The DrawTite unit didn't have a clue, appeared to work normally. What a relief to finally get to the bottom of this problem.

So I replaced the crappy ground wire with a good quality ground directly to the battery as instructed in the installation instructions. Rock solid performance.

Because this was a weak and intermittent ground the problem it was tough to find. Same symptoms as you, they were working but noway would they lock the tires no matter how high I set the controller.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Bill

And at high speeds, it may brake too little. That's what the manual lever is for - help it give you extra braking power. Of course, this requires a bit of practice, so you can hit the lever without fumbling for it.

At high speeds you use the manual lever to assist your trailer braking?

Maybe on long mountain descents, one could.

But certainly not in a high-speed, emergency braking situation. Then you really have to have the controller set high enough so the trailer can brake itself.

I've never used the manual lever except at low speeds to check/set the brake setting.

EDIT: I currently have my prodigy set at 12 on the highway. But if I'm in town, I need to dial it down to get rid of the jerkiness. There really needs to be a better way, cause I can forget to dial it back upon the highway.

[T and C]

Originally Posted by T and C

Folks,

I think I might have hit on the answer as to why the Prodigy controller does not cause the brakes to lock up while adjusting the level. I just bought a new truck. While reading the owner's manual section about adjusting the brake control, I spotted this:

"If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lockup may not be attainable even with the maximum gain setting of 10." This is referring to the Ford controller specifically, but....

I began thinking about the reason for this. The Prodigy directions are GENERAL, intended to fit most travel trailers, not TM's specifically. Most travel trailers have TWO axles. The TM has one. Since most TM's weigh in, loaded, at 4-5000 pounds, that means that the ONE axle on the trailer manor is carrying all the weight! So, the force downward on each tire is DOUBLE that of a two axle trailer!

That means that the little patch where the rubber meets the road on the bottom of the tire is being pushed down, by the weight of the trailer, with the force that you would find on a tire of an 8-10,000 pound trailer that has two axles. This would result in having MAJOR traction on our two tire trailers. No wonder they won't lock up.

Seems to me that this also helps to explain the blowout problem so many have experienced.

Does this make sense to the rest of you? If I have erred in my thinking, please correct me.

Tom

Folks,

I posted the above theory back in October of this year. Last Sunday I had an experience that seems to me to add strength to my theory.

In November I took a 2000 mile trip towing my TM. The TM brakes have never locked up on me since I have had it. Upon returning from my trip I put the TM in the driveway and disconnected it from the TV. I did not adjust the Prodigy brake controller at all!

Sunday morning I was asked to deliver a 4 wheel trailer to my church. We rent the place we meet in, and use the trailer to carry a bunch of rolling cabinets full of sound equipment, as well as all sorts of stuff for the Children's classes, and more. I don't know the weight of the trailer empty, but it is a box trailer with two axles about 20 feet long.

Here in SoCal we are having several days of steady rain. As soon as I braked my truck/trailer combo while crossing the wet parking lot...the trailer brakes locked. The Prodigy is set on 6. Since I only had to go 3 miles or so each way on city streets at 25-35 mph, I did not adjust the Prodigy.

Every time I forgot to brake very early and softly, the trailer brakes locked up. This has never happened with the TM. Also, every time I thumbed the switch on the Prodigy, they locked up.

To me, this confirms my theory that the cause of the difficulty in locking TM brakes is in the weight that the single axle bears. Each wheel has to carry twice the weight of the wheels of a dual axle trailer of equal weight. TM's have MAJOR traction. So, the brakes are difficult to lock up.

Tom