3M VHB Tape

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by jagizzi

I agree with you about the bolts crushing the roof if they were the principal means of attachment. They are merely back up to the UV4000 Adhesive Sealant. If the sealant fails I won't have the panel go sailing away on the freeway, and I will get a failure indication when it rains as the leak will end up on the bed.

In regards to doubling up the square tubes to increase surface area I am in complete agreement. So much so that if you look at the photo closely you'll notice just that. I doubled up to increase the surface area ;-) for the adhesive.

My main concern about the through bolting is that your solar panel is fairly heavy and mounted behind the trailer axle. When the TrailManor goes down the road, everything behind the axle has upward AND downward thrust, like a whip. The pressure of the downward thrust will be lessened by the 3M4200 sealant that you used. However, the upward thrust will pull the bolt and backing plate up against the roof panel. The combination of the 2 will most certainly cause the styrofoam between the inner and outer skin to compress if you do not have a crush sleeve in there.

[Hdlaut]

The "Non-linear load, crest factor 3:1" was in reference to the 2000W continuous power rating. I used a microwave for 6 years on our boat. It was the 3000W Multiplus.

I chose the Victron because of the seamless integration of shore power, and solar, and the ability to blend them while charging.

I misspoke earlier when I said I intended to use a B2B for charging to front battery. I will actually use the a/c output from either the Victron or shore power to supply power to the existing WFC charger / distribution panel. That won't affect the existing wiring and makes the DC wiring much simpler.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Hdlaut

The "Non-linear load, crest factor 3:1" was in reference to the 2000W continuous power rating. I used a microwave for 6 years on our boat. It was the 3000W Multiplus.

I chose the Victron because of the seamless integration of shore power, and solar, and the ability to blend them while charging.

I misspoke earlier when I said I intended to use a B2B for charging to front battery. I will actually use the a/c output from either the Victron or shore power to supply power to the existing WFC charger / distribution panel. That won't affect the existing wiring and makes the DC wiring much simpler.

Your new Victron will make the existing WFCO (an inferior product) completely superfluous. If upgrading to a multiplus, I would choose the "12v" model, for reasons described above.

"12v" is a power bus at up to 14.4 volts (I would configure it for lower "bulk charging). In current WFCO wiring, the 'battery port" is bi-directional and the WFCO converter boad provides 12v power into the other "main port" (only as input to the board). In your new wiring, the WFCO fuse board should never need to be used on your battery charge path.

Both ports become available as input-only ports (from Victron's internal converter, and/or victron-attached "12v" batteries.).

It is possible to configure other model of multiplus with batteries as "48v" (actually around 52 volts), if you're a power pig and want to build a 16s battery (taking the place FOUR 12v batteries, and using only one BMS). The the battery is no longer "redudundant" for the case of BMS shutdown, and the 48V -> 12V convert becomes a costly point of failure.

A configuration with "24" volt batteries (one or 2) is probably the worst of all choices, saving the cost of only one BMS while keeping most or all the "single point of failure" issues which are present in a "48v" configuration. The cost of the 4->12 converters and 48-12 converters is about the same. 48v at least saves the cost of 3 BMS boards, instead of just one.
In your current scheme (as I understand it), your tongue-mounted battery will be prone to theft and more exposed to possible low-temperature issues.

12v, in contrast, costs only another BMS board and some fairly short lengths of bigger wires.

[rickst29]

See photo. This older model one lug terminal post for "battery +", a second for "battery -". The limited height of the post, as well as the inability to mount multiple lugs with an offset angle from each each other (to keep the contact surfaces completely flat) means that only on lug can fit.

For the mere "2000w continuous/ 3500w peak" maximum (more like "1600w" continuous if loads attempt draw that power for more than a few seconds) at roughly 93% converter efficiency, your single cable needs to handle roughly 180A. It should be 4/0 AWG. (2/0 if rated for 90c temperature, might be considered OK by some people., but I don't like that wire size if they can't doubled into each port.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Hdlaut

The "Non-linear load, crest factor 3:1" was in reference to the 2000W continuous power rating. I used a microwave for 6 years on our boat. It was the 3000W Multiplus.

I chose the Victron because of the seamless integration of shore power, and solar, and the ability to blend them while charging.

I misspoke earlier when I said I intended to use a B2B for charging to front battery. I will actually use the a/c output from either the Victron or shore power to supply power to the existing WFC charger / distribution panel. That won't affect the existing wiring and makes the DC wiring much simpler.

result of it's superior headroom. The 3000w models (also rated 5500w peak) are comparable to the Inverter I use with a slightly small "900w" kitchen model. My Inverter is rated 3000/6000, and I confirmed that it CAN run 3000w continuous for muiple minutes in a row (before deciding to accept it, rather than do a "return for refund").

The smaller 2000w model might be good with a one of the newer "Inverter friendly" Panasonic models, but it's characteristics imply a high risk of failure if you ask it to drive a "normal" microwave rated as "900w power" or higher. There have been quite a few reports of issues with the "2000 watt" Multiplus issues failing to drive extended continuous loads above 1600 watts. Unless the new panasonic microwaves are super-smooth, with GREATLY reduced reactance factors, I would expect to see problems.

[Hdlaut]

👍Thanks!

[rickst29]

The one UNIQUE function which a mupltplus can provide is this: Augmenting inadequate grid or generator power coming in on the 30A power cord.

(If the voltage drops from TM 120v loads which the "grid" supply cannot supply, the Mulitplus can stabilize and augment the incoming grid 60hz supply with synchronized inverter power, obtained from 12v (batteries and/or solar).
- - -
A configuration like mine cannot do that. '120v' is supplied from EITHER the grid *or* the 12v system, they cannot be combined to provide more power.

But it costs less, and the OTHER separate components are each replaceable as individual units. Here are the 3 other functions which the Multiplus provides:

(1) an automatic transfer switch. A 30A switch is adequate, and a really good one costs about $140 delivered (the progressive dynamics PD5110010Q, the being new version with WAGO-style connectors).

(2) A high quality (and bigger) Inverter. My own Inverter (this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/39483776702...8AAOSweW5U87Fn) cost less than $180, although I also bought a couple of other bits to make a low-cost remote cable. An even bigger version might fit the compartment at slight higher cost.

(3) A 120v -> 12v power converter (replacing the WFCO "main board'). There are multiple options ranging up to about $400. The highest of those prices consists of a set of TWO "30 amp" from roughly $300 for a high-powered non-programmable model (progessive dynamics), up to about $450 for pair of cellphone programmable Victron Energy "Blue Smart IP22 12-Volt 30 amp 120VAC" battery chargers with built-in bluetooth.

It is possible that just a single "30A" Victron will exceed your needs. You could try buying just one and adding the second later.
- - -
In all 3 cases, separate components cost less and provide higher servicability.

[Hdlaut]

I hear you, but I like the all-in-one integration of the Victron. ��

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by Hdlaut

I hear you, but I like the all-in-one integration of the Victron. ��

I hear you as well The all-in one is an OK choice, but programming the float voltage is awkward and non-flexible. The "All in one integration" will also make it impossible to replace just the inverter section, if that function becomes inoperable. (it is the most failure-prone 'section' within a muptiplus, especially a smaller older model.)

(Edited 9/1/23)