Plugging into 110 volt while TM is in garage

[Bill]

Joe -

Does the battery have water to the right level?

Getting a spark when you connect/disconnect the battery lead is normal. Even if there is no radio, there are other devices within the TM that consume a small amount of electricity, which results in the spark you mention.

When the battery tender was warm, was the TM hooked into shore power and the battery hooked up normally? If so, the on-board charger and the battery tender were fighting each other. Not good.

Some folks love battery tenders, mostly because they are cheap. But there is a reason they are cheap. They are about the least-sophisticated piece of electronics in the world. I personally hate them, because you never know what they are doing - but it is almost always something bad.

Bill

[mjlaupp]

Parasitic current draws are:
Radio - you don't have one.
Amplified radio antenna, always on - disconnect 12v fuse for radio.
Propane detector, on when TM is open, off when rear bath wall is down. (note that some model years seem to keep this powered at all times)

Try charging the battery with the on-board converter for 12-24 hours and then plug in the tender. It sounds like your battery is fairly well discharged and is drawing the max current from your tender.

Mike

Ok.. what is a battery tender?

Originally Posted by Bill

Joe -

Does the battery have water to the right level?

Getting a spark when you connect/disconnect the battery lead is normal. Even if there is no radio, there are other devices within the TM that consume a small amount of electricity, which results in the spark you mention.

When the battery tender was warm, was the TM hooked into shore power and the battery hooked up normally? If so, the on-board charger and the battery tender were fighting each other. Not good.

Some folks love battery tenders, mostly because they are cheap. But there is a reason they are cheap. They are about the least-sophisticated piece of electronics in the world. I personally hate them, because you never know what they are doing - but it is almost always something bad.

Bill

Bill,

Battery water right where it is suppose to be.

It's a new battery (ng-24) only two months old.

TM not hook up (In garage, closed position) to shore power.

Battery voltage reading 12.51. I thought thats where it is suppose to be. From now on I'm just going to disconnect battery from TM while in storage. That should take care of the electric drain suckers in the TM.

Joe

Originally Posted by KenetteK

Ok.. what is a battery tender?

In simple terms, a battery tender is a relatively low cost smart trickle charger.

A dumb trickle charger will boil the water out of you battery. A smart one will not.

It puts out a very limited amount of current, so it is not very useful to charge a nearly dead battery. But it is a good product for long term storage.

I need to buy a couple of them soon for the two ATVs that we bought this last March.

I don't use one for the TM. I do not think it is very necessary for the TM because we use it once a month.

I think it is more useful for people that winterize their trailer for long periods of time, or for my friend at the office that only uses their trailer for two weeks every summer and then leave it parked unused for the rest of the year.

[Bill]

Let me offer a couple points. First, Joe, a voltage of 12.51 is too low. References seem to say that this voltage indicates the battery is about 70% charged, and that's only if the battery charger has been disconnected for six to twelve hours to remove the surface charge. If a battery charger is (or recently has been) hooked up, then the voltage should be considerably higher than 12.5 - think 13.2-13.4 or so.

Second, Wayne, I'm not at all sure that a battery tender always means a smart trickle charger. Even the cheapest float chargers and trickle chargers say that they are "smart" or "automatic", but they never define what that means. And for their $8 - $10 cost, you can be sure there isn't much in there.

Part of the problem is that the term "battery tender" is like the term "Kleenex". It has become generic. There is a company and a device called Battery Tender (note the capital letters), and their web site has all sorts of extravagant claims for their devices. Is it really "smart"? I don't know, but the price is so low that I really tend to doubt it. But the real problem is that many cheap Chinese trickle chargers use the term "battery tender" (note the lack of capital letters) to describe their product. And I think we're both agreed that a dumb trickle charger won't charge a seriously discharged battery, but will overcharge a fully charged battery. And even that is complicated by the fact that the charge rate is so low that the parasitic loads can eat up a good part of it, leaving insufficient charge to tend the battery. For example, the Battery Tender Junior, the cheapest of the line of Battery Tenders, says that it is smart, but it puts out only 3/4 of amp. Since the parasitic loads can easily total more than 1/2 amp, what good does it do?

Every time this question comes up, I ask myself "If I'm risking a $100 battery replacement every year, why would I skimp on a battery charger?" And my conclusion is always the same - do what Cheri did, and spend just a few extra bucks for a real three-stage or four-stage charger.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill

Let me offer a couple points. First, Joe, a voltage of 12.51 is too low. References seem to say that this voltage indicates the battery is about 70% charged, and that's only if the battery charger has been disconnected for six to twelve hours to remove the surface charge. If a battery charger is (or recently has been) hooked up, then the voltage should be considerably higher than 12.5 - think 13.2-13.4 or so.

Second, Wayne, I'm not at all sure that a battery tender always means a smart trickle charger. Even the cheapest float chargers and trickle chargers say that they are "smart" or "automatic", but they never define what that means. And for their $8 - $10 cost, you can be sure there isn't much in there.

Part of the problem is that the term "battery tender" is like the term "Kleenex". It has become generic. There is a company and a device called Battery Tender (note the capital letters), and their web site has all sorts of extravagant claims for their devices. Is it really "smart"? I don't know, but the price is so low that I really tend to doubt it. But the real problem is that many cheap Chinese trickle chargers use the term "battery tender" (note the lack of capital letters) to describe their product. And I think we're both agreed that a dumb trickle charger won't charge a seriously discharged battery, but will overcharge a fully charged battery. And even that is complicated by the fact that the charge rate is so low that the parasitic loads can eat up a good part of it, leaving insufficient charge to tend the battery. For example, the Battery Tender Junior, the cheapest of the line of Battery Tenders, says that it is smart, but it puts out only 3/4 of amp. Since the parasitic loads can easily total more than 1/2 amp, what good does it do?

Every time this question comes up, I ask myself "If I'm risking a $100 battery replacement every year, why would I skimp on a battery charger?" And my conclusion is always the same - do what Cheri did, and spend just a few extra bucks for a real three-stage or four-stage charger.

Bill

Thank you Bill. That is a good enough answer for me.

Joe

Originally Posted by Bill

Every time this question comes up, I ask myself "If I'm risking a $100 battery replacement every year, why would I skimp on a battery charger?" And my conclusion is always the same - do what Cheri did, and spend just a few extra bucks for a real three-stage or four-stage charger.
Bill

For me, price is an issue. I have the following batteries to worry about. During prime camping seasons every month or two, so he batteries will only be sitting for about two months. But that is a little long.

2005 TM 2720
2008 GMC 2500HD TV used for towing TM insured for 7,500 miles per year
2002 Chevy 1500HD TV used for towing ATV trailer insured for 7,500 miles per year
2008 Yamaha dual sport motorcycle ( aka street legal dirt bike)
2008 Polaris Sportsman X2 ATV (holds two people)
2008 Polaris Scrambler ATV (holds one rider)

DW drives the Lexus SUV and I drive the Nissan Sentra when I don't take the motorcycle to work.

I don't need to worry about the daily drivers, but I am concerned about the others. I need six battery tenders. I really don't want to spend $600.00 (100 each) and the vehicles are scattered so that I can not use a multi-output tender. Being a frugal use of time (aka lazy) I also do not want to keep moving the tender from one place to the next.

A battery tender that will keep the battery topped of without boiling the water due to over charging is what I need. I don't think it should cost more than $35.00. When I find a good one I will buy some.

A good place to read up in on some motorcycle forums. The guys with a large assortment of motorcycles have the same problem. I read ThumperTalk.com. But, I just haven't taken the time (yet) to carefully research battery tenders.

If you only need one, then why not buy a full blown 3 stage charger. They are only $90.00 new. My problem is the quantity that I need.

Anyone have any problems with hydrogen gas when charging with the camper closed?

[Bill]

Jacob -

It gets discussed almost endlessly. A Search on the word "hydrogen" turns up at leat 52 hits - too much to repeat here. Check it out.

Bill