The Thetford toilet: a virtual tour and fixing it for good

[ThePair]

I'm working on a redesign for the "cage" that I think will work better. The issue I've run into is a delay in my testing due to operator error I accidentally blew out part of the slide gasket when using a Flush King without opening the slide (I had closed it to test the flushing, and forgot when I went outside again). So, I had to pull the whole toilet out, which then let me see what a bizarre job had been done securing it to the floor -- a ton of silicone around the outside of the gray donut, for what reason I'm not sure. So, the donut needs replacement (tomorrow) and then I'll be able to continue my work. Sadly, I'm under the gun for this, as we leave Sat for a 4 day outing, and the toilet MUST be working in some form by then. Assuming my reseating of the slide gasket remains watertight, I think I can get it done tomorrow.

I'll give an update of the functionality after the trip, when it will really get tested. Thank you all for the information I needed to feel confident enough to tackle a repair like this myself!

[ShrimpBurrito]

I am looking forward to your follow-up. Interestingly enough, I had noticed that the toilet gauge stopped working during the last week of the trip, not moving off "E". I just presumed that something was caught in the float, and I would unstick it when I opened up the toilet. However, I just rinsed the toilet today, draining the water into a bucket, and you might imagine my surprise when a white plastic piece from the gauge dropped into the bucket. I'm hoping that some other parts from the gauge did not get drained earlier at a dump station, but I'm not very optimistic. A cage around the pump and gauge would have prevented this problem.

Dave

[Bill]

ThePair -

I'm sure you realize a couple things. First, the big glob of silicone is a bad idea, and should be removed. TM has used it for years, and no one (including TM) appears to know why. But it gets in the way of free and fast water flow (the "whoosh"), and causes leaks.

Second, the foam donut is apparently not the same as the foam donut used for plumbing the toilet in your house. I have not found that the big box hardware stores (or smaller box, for that matter) carry the one needed in RVs. Different size, if I recall. But they are commonly and cheaply avilable at RV places. It is probably helpful to bring the old one, or at least to remember that you have a Thetford Electra-Magic toilet, so they can look it up if you need to. And while you are there, you might buy two.

Bill

[ThePair]

Thanks for the notes, Bill. I did think of both those things, and spent close to an hour removing all the silicone. To my benefit, none of it was blocking the drain outlet, but nonetheless I knew (from these boards) that it is unneeded, so now it's all gone, to the best of my peeling-off ability.

I'm also aware that the foam is RV-specific. I'm in striking range of 3 RV places (well, 4, but that one is really in the other direction). I'm going to call and find out which one(s) carry it, and make the trip this afternoon. No time for internets this time around

I believe it's called the Thetford Closet Flange, or something like that.

As to the gauge, there's few parts to it: A white float, twin rails for the float, and the twisty corkscrew-like piece in the middle that turns the gauge as the float rises. Mine also has/had a tube that fits over the bottom of the whole assembly, but that prevents the float from reaching the bottom and registering "E". I think it may be a shipping part. My toilet was "fixed" under warrantee last year, and I'm not convinced the person who did the repair was at all familiar with the ElectraMagic toilet. So it's very possible that piece should have been removed at install. I've removed it, because I can't fathom what it's functional purpose might be, whereas I can see that it blocks the lowest part of the gauge from operating properly.

[ThePair]

Ok, I was able to successfully reseat the gasket within the blade slide, so that's now leak-free. One new flange later, and the toilet is back in its proper home.

Interestingly enough, I had a near-impossible time getting it out of the TM due to the slides being too tight to remove. I actually had to loosen the nuts to get the slides out. As it turns out, as installed from the factory, those two nuts were much lower than they should have been according to Thetford. Why, I have no idea, but they were so tight it was unbelievable. Needless to say, I very carefully measured out the 1 11/32" height for replacement, and I am confident that it'll be far easier to remove the next time...if there is a next time. FYI: I do not have a locator disc, like many others here, but I didn't put one on in my reinstall, either. I presume its function is to prevent the toilet from rotating. Mine does have a little wiggle to it (probably from the brand new flange, I'm expecting that to decrease some with compression over time), but when I secured the motor/switch housing to the unit, I tucked the thick black cable behind the toilet body itself, which then became a nice, solid lock, so that there is no movement of the toilet at all, now. Since the unit to floor join is only important when dumping, I think this will be fine--I may need to tighten things a little as the closet flange compresses, but otherwise it seems like a good reinstall.

I am happy to say that, so far, my modification seems to work. That is, the system flushes properly and the gauge works. I've included a photo of version 1 below. The major difference between version 1 and v.2 is that I cut a small notch (probably unnecessary) for the tube that carries the water into the rim of the bowl, and I curled the right side of my "fence" around a bit so it doesn't sit in the corner. That's where the gauge float needs to go, and having the edge there prevented it from working. But putting a little curve on that side, so the edge is now in front of the "pillar" on that side, the float will technically be "outside" the fence, but the curve will be touching the right-side wall of the toilet, so the float will still be protected. I used a gridded wire mesh (galvanized) with aluminum screening material for the construction. I couldn't really take a picture of the v.2, because the curve means it doesn't sit well on its own in the toilet. You need to put in the curve as you're inserting the cover, being careful to get the float arm in the corner and the pump uptake inside the protective area of the fence. It's tall enough that the cover puts nice pressure from above, but the pressure is from the flat part of the cover, not the curved bowl, so it should be more reliable and hopefully less prone to movement or "escapees".

I also applied some car wax to the inside of the bowl, hopefully to make it a bit more slippery. The right side of the chute gets less water flow, and some solids were sticking in that area. I don't want to have gone through all this only to still need to wipe down the chute after use.

Keeping my fingers crossed, I will report on it when I return from my trip. The nice part is that there is now nothing in front of the chute at all, so there can't be anything to prevent solids from exiting in a timely and orderly fashion.

[ShrimpBurrito]

ThePair - This is excellent work. I'm glad to see someone else also taking the initiative in the redesign. I have 3 concerns about your idea:

1) those two pockets on either side of the toilet on the bowl side of the tank -- those are tight angles, and could end up being areas where TP and waste collect; and

2) how is the mesh secured? Is it solely from pressure from the top cover, or also pressure from the bowl? Either way, I'm worried either will fail in applying adequate pressure to seal the mesh against the back of the tank; and

3) I am doubtful the galvanized will hold up. I used a galvanized plate in an attempt to solve a separate issue, and within a year or so it was obviously corroded -- not to the point of breaking apart, but it was definitely rusted. And it wasn't soaking in the tank, it was attached to the underside of the top assembly near the top of the bowl. If your design ends up working, I'd replace it with stainless after you perfect it.

But...this is all trial and error. I am looking forward to your report.

Also, I wouldn't be too worried about the 1-11/32" specified in the Thetford manual. I too was anal about getting that exact measurement the first time I reinstalled the toilet. Thetford even supplies a special spacing tool with that exact measurement for convenience, but that wasn't included with my TM. But despite my precise measurement, the toilet was loose within a few trips, so I had to pull it back out and tighten down the nuts. Now I don't measure the nuts at all -- I simply lower them until the toilet feels snug when someone is sitting on the toilet...but not using it.

I was worried that the toilet constantly rubbing against the wall with the wire in between was asking for trouble, so I relocated the wire so that it exits the side of the toilet nearest the sink. Took 30 seconds with a Dremel, and I feel it's a cleaner install.

Don't worry...you WILL be disassembling/pulling out the toilet again. It's only a matter of time. I took the cover off mine today to fix the gauge, and as it turns out, the part that came out the discharge pipe was the only part that came out. Everything is there....amazing. But what wasn't amazing is that I still found bits of TP and solid waste surrounding the edge of the filter cone, despite me flushing out the toilet at least 3-4 times with fresh water after we last used it. It wasn't alot, but given my flushing, I wasn't expecting any.

Dave

[ThePair]

Thanks for the comments!

1) I agree. I intend to check on those types of questions after this outing, perhaps a before & after using the flush king, as a reference.

2) Only secured by pressure, mostly from the top cover, which I feel is at least as good as the bowl, if not better. Certainly no worse than the default; however, I have some excess mesh on the bottom that I am hoping will do a better job than the default. I'm not as concerned about the back of the tank as the bottom, because the way it gets pressure and the bowed shape cause (as best as I can tell) the sides to bow outwards towards the sides of the tank as the top is fixed into place, which may minimize #1 above's issues as well.

3) I agree, but this was the only thing I could find on short notice from Lowe's. I wanted stainless steel. Then again, stainless steel against aluminum is not as good as galvanized against aluminum. Ultimately I'd want stainless for both the mesh and the screen, but again I couldn't find it for this portion of the experiment. If the design is good, though, then further investigation would be warranted

My wire was always jammed behind the toilet, but if I can get the thing screwed tighter to the deck (not by myself with a fresh donut, but maybe after some time + compression) then I'll just get that wire out of the way.

Unfortunately, taking out all the time to do this prevented me from making the plumbing upgrade I've worked out. And, I'm still waiting on the replacement module for the fridge. Ah, well, I've got one more outing planned, so hopefully I'll get those two done before then.

[Bill]

Oh ho! Sounds like I'm learning a couple things. First, if the toilet is snugged down to the floor much much too hard, it may actually deform the foam gasket, not just squish it. In fact, it may deform it to the point where it leaks. That could be a reason for the huge blob of silicone.

On the other hand, you can expect the new gasket to compress and take a set, and if your toilet wiggles a bit with the new gasket, the wiggling may become worse. You may end up tightening those nuts again.

Like most of us, I did not have a locator disc installed in mine. But last time I went to pull the toilet off the floor, I noticed that it could rotate on the floor a bit, and that just seemed like a bad idea. As it happened, I had just thrown out an empty can of spray paint, and as it happened again, the inside diameter of the lid was exactly the diameter of the toilet leg. So I cut the lid down to about 1/4 inch high, screwed it open-side-up to the floor, and put the leg of the toilet inside it. Worked like a champ!

The things we learn ...!

Bill

Sounds like the best repair for the thetford "StinkPot" is t rip it out and replace it with a standard RV toilet. As soon as I can figure out where to mount a blackwater tank in my 3023 our stinker is history!

[ThePair]

As I see it, the issue with rotation is mainly if you can rotate far enough to release the brass screws from the ring that's bolted to the floor. As the TM installation stands, there is no room for that much rotation. With the wire tucked behind the toilet, there is absolutely no rotation whatsoever, at least in my setup. If I change my mind in the future, it seems like an easy enough addition at next re-seat.

My original foam gasket was so horribly deformed that it looked nothing like the new one. You might be right about the silicone in that instance, which begs the question as to why the installation isn't done according to Thetford's recommendations. The conclusion I've reached is a simple one: Trailmanor doesn't want the end user to need to worry about compression and re-tightening of the toilet over time. In order to prevent that kind of mandatory maintenance for the average end-user, I think they crank the toilet down hard to the floor, eliminating any ongoing compression by forcing it down at initial installation and then use the silicone as a preventative insurance policy against deformation leakage.

Makes sense to me, at least.