Sucking the life outta me.....

Kmikesell · 04-16-2024, 04:57 PM

Just returned from a LONG trip to Texas to see the eclipse... Almost 3000 mile round trip. Due to setting up and tearing down I noticed that my batteries (2 Trajan 6V that are two years old) didn't hold up to a charge. I even have a 100 W solar to keep them topped up.

I think I have some hidden draw, but I'm not sure how to find out....

Any help?

**ShrimpBurrito** · 04-16-2024, 08:46 PM

You don't say how long a period the batteries are not holding their charge -- a day? a week? That is important to know. Certainly if you go from full charge to 11 volts in a day and you don't know what the cause is (absent the fridge on DC or a short), then you probably have bad batteries.

Some of the known parasitic draws are the CO detector, stereo, gas water heater with electric ignition, and your solar controller. But all of those should not drain 2 Trojans in a few days.

I'd first turn off/disconnect the solar controller from the battery (and the AC cord to the camper, too, of course), get yourself a clamp-on DC ammeter, and put it around the positive wire right at the battery. Craftsman used to make one when they were owned by Sears for about $60, but I don't know if they still do. Be careful because many clamp-on multi-meters can't measure both AC and DC current, but only AC current via the clamp.

Ideally, you'll read 0 amps, but due to the aforementioned parasitic loads, there will be some current draw. What is that number? If it's only a few tenths of an amp, there's probably no weird current draws, and that would support the batteries being bad. If you have much more than that, then I would start pulling fuses one-by-one, assessing the current draw after you pull each fuse. That will narrow down the circuit that have current draws.

If you end up suspecting a bad battery, you can always use a battery hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of the acid in the battery. Trojan publishes reference charts for what you'd expect it to be.

Let us know what you find.

Dave

Shane826 · 04-17-2024, 01:03 PM

How long is it taking to drain the batteries? If it's a short time, check and make sure the break-away brake switch is not engaged. Pin should be fully seated. A TMer over at TMF on Facebook went up the West Coast with his break-away brake switch shorted, his brake shoes were completely gone, and the camper would eat the tow 6V batteries in less than a day because the shorted switch was sending full power to the brakes.

Wavery · 04-19-2024, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmikesell

Just returned from a LONG trip to Texas to see the eclipse... Almost 3000 mile round trip. Due to setting up and tearing down I noticed that my batteries (2 Trajan 6V that are two years old) didn't hold up to a charge. I even have a 100 W solar to keep them topped up.

I think I have some hidden draw, but I'm not sure how to find out....

Any help?

A 100W solar panel may give you about 30ah in a full sunny day. If your batteries are 200ah, that's not a lot of help. It's certainly better than nothing but I didn't really start seeing a useful charge until I got to 400W of solar. Now I have 640W of solar and truly feel like I'm self dependent.

I'm sure you know this but check your water level. If low, fill it to about 1/2" of the top with distilled water. If you've ever put tap water (even a little) in your batteries, that will destroy them ina short period of time.

Kmikesell · 04-22-2024, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavery

A 100W solar panel may give you about 30ah in a full sunny day. If your batteries are 200ah, that's not a lot of help. It's certainly better than nothing but I didn't really start seeing a useful charge until I got to 400W of solar. Now I have 640W of solar and truly feel like I'm self dependent.

I'm sure you know this but check your water level. If low, fill it to about 1/2" of the top with distilled water. If you've ever put tap water (even a little) in your batteries, that will destroy them ina short period of time.

I've used these batteries/solar panels for two summers and they fit my usual needs perfectly. By 11:00AM my batteries are reading right around 13.4 V. So this system has worked for me in the past.

Kmikesell · 04-22-2024, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane826

How long is it taking to drain the batteries? If it's a short time, check and make sure the break-away brake switch is not engaged. Pin should be fully seated. A TMer over at TMF on Facebook went up the West Coast with his break-away brake switch shorted, his brake shoes were completely gone, and the camper would eat the tow 6V batteries in less than a day because the shorted switch was sending full power to the brakes.

Well, when I got the TM out of storage to do a few fixes and put the batteries in (I take them out every winter to keep them from freezing, I live in UT) The two 6v batteries were reading 13.5 V. When getting ready to leave for the trip to TX there wasn't enough power to run the tongue jack. After an 14 hour trip to Albuquerque, the tongue jack worked fine.... Next day after another 14 hour drive the jack was a no go, and we had to use the manual crank. I had a blown fuse (Not sure what the fuse was for) but I replaced it, and all seemed right. Coming home after the eclipse, same problem. no juice and the batteries read 11.5 V.

Kmikesell · 04-22-2024, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

You don't say how long a period the batteries are not holding their charge -- a day? a week? That is important to know. Certainly if you go from full charge to 11 volts in a day and you don't know what the cause is (absent the fridge on DC or a short), then you probably have bad batteries. Dave

Dave, it seems like they wont hold a charge for much more than a few hours. They are only 3 years old and I kept them on a trickle charge all winter.

**ShrimpBurrito** · 04-22-2024, 03:31 PM

So it sounds like you have either bad batteries or significant current drain (which could be a short). Have you checked the water level as Wayne suggested? If full, I'd pick up a battery hydrometer (something like this: https://www.amazon.com/E-Z-Red-SP101.../dp/B000JFHMRU), which you could also get at any auto parts store.

This problem should be relatively easy to track down.....

Dave

**Bill** · 04-22-2024, 04:15 PM

Again, did you check the battery water level?

Did you check the breakaway switch?

And you describe a problem with the tongue jack. Does the problem show up with any other electrical device? When the tongue jack won't work, do any other electrical devices work or not work? Which ones?

If I could suggest ...

You are talking about several hundred dollars worth of batteries here. Don't skimp on a cheapie hydrometer. Garages use a temperature-corrected hydrometer with a glass float. It may or may not be more accurate, but it is only a few bucks more. I haven't looked in detail, but Amazon has one from Deka for about $18. As Dave noted, any auto supply store will have something similar. They just make me more comfortable.

I agree with one of the posts above suggesting you really need to confirm that there is an unintended current drain, and if so, where is the discharge current going, and how big is it? This can be an involved task unless you have the right tool. As Dave suggested, the tool to make it as easy as possible is a clamp-on digital meter that will measure DC current (all of them will measure AC, but only a few will measure DC). We had a discussion sometime back here on the Forum.

https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ad.php?t=18923

Bill

Wavery · 04-23-2024, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmikesell

Well, when I got the TM out of storage to do a few fixes and put the batteries in (I take them out every winter to keep them from freezing, I live in UT) The two 6v batteries were reading 13.5 V. When getting ready to leave for the trip to TX there wasn't enough power to run the tongue jack. After an 14 hour trip to Albuquerque, the tongue jack worked fine.... Next day after another 14 hour drive the jack was a no go, and we had to use the manual crank. I had a blown fuse (Not sure what the fuse was for) but I replaced it, and all seemed right. Coming home after the eclipse, same problem. no juice and the batteries read 11.5 V.

I suspect that you may have a few things going on here. Inop tongue jack is a common issue and not necessarily related to low voltage. The problem could be a bad ground, especially if you have a swing away tongue on your trailer. I solved that issue on my TM by running a ground strap from the frame, across the tongue hinge, to the tongue (about 8" long).

The other issue is that I think you may be measuring battery voltage while the batteries are charging, either by solar or other. If that's the case, the reading that you are getting (13.5V) is merely the surface voltage while charging which is not an indication of the state of charge of the entire battery. There is no way that you will get a reading of 13.5V while the batteries are at rest. The proper way to read battery voltage is while the battery has been at rest (no charge or discharge) for ~ 6hrs. Another way is to disconnect the charger and turn on a light for about 2-3 minutes. This dissipates the battery surface charge and gives you a more accurate state of charge for the battery.

Another good test is to check the voltage of each battery separately (at rest). If one battery reads lower than the other, the higher voltage battery is being drained by the lower voltage battery. Also, check the size of the jumper wire between the 2 batteries. It should be a 2/0 at minimum and 4/0 is better and that wire should be absolutely as short as possible and connections should be clean and tight.