Is my Dexter Axle still adequate or is it something else?

[coralcruze]

owner of 2005 Trailmanor 2720

There are alot of threads I have been reading here about people having issues with Trailmanor and blow outs. As many of you owners out there have realized that the original ST215/75R14 load C tires are hardly adequate for this trailer. So like you I switched to load D which if memory serves me right are just lightly wider tires. However the diameter of the tires are the same at 27.1" or so. what changes is the load rating is increased to 1870 and far less blow out issues.

However, years after we made this change we are seeing another issue. The tire on drivers side is coming into contact with the top of the fender well. As you can see in the pictures attached below the tire put a big hole in the belly of the fender well and also came in contact at the bottom of the fender well where it meets the floor of the trailer. Which leady to my question... is there any issue with the Dexter axle? Or is there a design flaw by Trailmanor in use of this axle? (more on that below). Or is there an issue with the tire itself that caused this?

is there any issue with the Dexter axle?
So started by calling Dexter who looked at the pictures below comparing the left and right sides of the axle. According to Dexter there seems to be nothing which indicates any issues with the axle itself. the position of the spindle (breaks removed - so unloaded condition - Trailmanor up on scissor jacks) which indicates no issue. if there was an issue on the spindles would be in a different position as compared to the other side. that isn't the case (see pics). Also the space above the tires is about 1.5" to the underside of the fender well and that is pretty much the same on both sides.

is there a design flaw by Trailmanor in use of this axle?
Information I gathered, back in 2007 Trailmanor discontinued the use of the 22.5 degree down angle torsion axle (which is about horizontal or about 5 degrees down from horizontal) and went to 45 degree down angle torsion axle (which is about 25-30 degree down from horizontal). Obviously they realized that the tires are coming too close to the under side of the fender wells. More clearance was necessary. hence the use of greater down angle. Dexter also mentioned to me that there must be 3" of clearance between the top of the tire treads and the underside of the fender well. for me in my 2005 TM it was never even close to being 3" clear (loaded). its always been around 1.5" loaded. I got my towing vehicle and trailmanor weighed and I can confirm that I am not overloaded. not even close. weight on each tire on the trailer is about 1770lbs loaded so that puts me at #3540 lbs. if I remember correctly. lastly Dexter sent me a template to align with my Torflex arm of the 3500# Dexter Axle. As you can see from the pictures below the positions of both spindles on left and right sides of the TM is roughly the same on both sides. which again indicates to Dexter that the axle is still viable and not showing any issue. So what could be causing this?

is there an issue with the tire itself that caused this?
I don't think there was. At least not befor the tires came in contact with the fender well. the contact obviously cased alot of heat and friction melting the fender well and swelling the treads of the tire. Thankfully it didn't cause a blow out.

So I tend to think that this Issue comes down to a design flaw of the proper axle being used on the TM pre 2007. the use of the 45 degree down angle from what I am reading did provide the 3" clearance needed between the tires and the fender wells. What do you all think? perhaps its something else causing this issue that I overlooked? Rough patch of road? I don't go off road perhaps some rough campgrounds which we coast very slowly anyway. so I just don't see anything else it could be.

I would love to get a consensus from the experts on this. At this point I am leaning towards having to install a lift kit which ironically Trailmanor supplies to get extra clearance rather than change out the axle to the 45 degree down axle by dexter to gain clearance.

[coralcruze]

Pictures...

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by coralcruze

owner of 2005 Trailmanor 2720




I would love to get a consensus from the experts on this. At this point I am leaning towards having to install a lift kit which ironically Trailmanor supplies to get extra clearance rather than change out the axle to the 45 degree down axle by dexter to gain clearance.

You need to install a lift kit. You don't need to buy it from TrailManor if you don't want to. It's simply 2, pieces of 3/16" wall 2.5" square tubing 12"long and 4- grade 8 bolts and nots about 3.5-4" long.

Having said that, those swing arms appear to only be about 5* (or less) down.

As a side note...... How fast do you tow @?

[coralcruze]

Originally Posted by Wavery

You need to install a lift kit. You don't need to buy it from TrailManor if you don't want to. It's simply 2, pieces of 3/16" wall 2.5" square tubing 12"long and 4- grade 8 bolts and nots about 3.5-4" long.

Having said that, those swing arms appear to only be about 5* (or less) down.

Apparently 2.5" tube is hard to find in my area as ots not a common size so i have to just purchase from TM.

Please see the pic with me holding the template. This is a 22.5 degree down angle axle as confirmed by Dexter. But yes it that is only 5 degree from horizontal. This is normal. Likewise a 45 degree downangle axle would only physically be about 30 degrees down from horizontal.

[Bill]

You have omitted a lot of important information. As an example, for most years of the TM product, TM equipped the trailer with 14 inch Goodyear Marathon ST tires, load range C. When owners went to 15 inch tires, Marathons were among the choices. You didn't tell us what tires you upgraded to, but the Goodyear website says the following about Marathons.
. . . Goodyear Marathon
. . . . . 215/75R14 C 50 psi 1870 lb 26.1 inches dia, width 8.5
. . . . . 225/75R15 D 65 psi 2535 lb 28.3 inches dia, width 8.7
So if you somehow got a Load range D tire with 1870 pounds capacity, that was no upgrade. The 225 is the smallest Marathon in load range D. It has a much greater carrying capacity, which is why it was great as an upgrade. However, it also has a much larger diameter, and hence radius, which is what matters. This appears to be the problem you are having - the extra 1+ inch of radius ate up your clearance..

Good year no longer makes Marathons - they have been supplanted by the Endurance line, which has different specs and options. Did you move to Endurance tires? If so, which ones?

After you made the change to 15-inch tires, did you ever have a tire failure? Tires don't always fail as a violent blowout. If a strip of the tread came loose (and perhaps detached entirely and flew off), it would cause the kind of damage to the arch of the fender well liner. In addition, you say that the tire contacted the fender well where it meets the floor of the trailer. For an intact tire, this is almost impossible, since it would require the tire to move horizontally - which it really can't - and there is a lot of horizontal clearance. In other words, if a tire moves up and down enough, it will contact the wheel well liner above it. But I don't know how it could move forward and back enough to contact the liner where it meets the floor.

Assuming you did not have a tire failure, another possibility is that you hit a piece of road debris such as an "alligator" at some point. It could have been carried up into the wheel well area and done damage.

As for the axle, did TM make the change in down angle as early as 2007? I know my 2006 did not have the change.

Do you know which axle you actually have? Did you read the tag on the axle, and decode it on the Dexter web site? That would confirm the starting angle.

Yes, Dexter recommends 3" clearance above the tire. We discussed that here on the Forum. After I made the change to 15" tires, I did not have quite that much clearance, but I had more than 1 1/2 inches.

Finally, you say "I am leaning towards having to install a lift kit which ironically Trailmanor supplies to get extra clearance rather than change out the axle to the 45 degree down axle by dexter to gain clearance." First you say they did make the change to the axle. Then you say they didn't, so that they could sell a few lift kits. I'm confused. Are you suggesting that TM should retrofit an axle installed in 2005 with a new one?

So this is the kind of information we need. Can you fill us in? And by the way, TM has been making and selling trailers since 1990 or earlier.They have a lot of experience in building them, and a lot of user experience behind them. You might want to soft-pedal the design-flaw accusation until the issue gets sorted out.

Bill

[Bill]

Originally Posted by coralcruze

Apparently 2.5" tube is hard to find in my area as ots not a common size so i have to just purchase from TM.

There is nothing magic about 2.5 inches. It appears that you need to add an inch of clearance, so one inch tube would do. On the other hand, lifts of 3" are common among owners who want to have more road clearance.

Bill

[Wavery]

It appears to me like the tire that is causing the wheel well damage is starting to come apart.

The reason that I say that is because you are experiencing contact with the front of the wheel well as well as the top. The only way that can happen (other than the complete axle moving aft) is if the tire is actually expanding at highway speed. This can be caused by excessive speed (centrifugal force) or tire tread separation.

[coralcruze]

Originally Posted by Bill

You have omitted a lot of important information. As an example, for most years of the TM product, TM equipped the trailer with 14 inch Goodyear Marathon ST tires, load range C. When owners went to 15 inch tires, Marathons were among the choices. You didn't tell us what tires you upgraded to, but the Goodyear website says the following about Marathons.
. . . Goodyear Marathon
. . . . . 215/75R14 C 50 psi 1870 lb 26.1 inches dia, width 8.5
. . . . . 225/75R15 D 65 psi 2535 lb 28.3 inches dia, width 8.7
So if you somehow got a Load range D tire with 1870 pounds capacity, that was no upgrade. The 225 is the smallest Marathon in load range D. It has a much greater carrying capacity, which is why it was great as an upgrade. However, it also has a much larger diameter, and hence radius, which is what matters. This appears to be the problem you are having - the extra 1+ inch of radius ate up your clearance..

Firstly, thanks for your input. It is appreciated even if a bit sarcastic lol.

No I did not change the size of tire. Pictures I have show ST125/75R14 NOT 15" diameter. That I am sertain about. As mentioned ai believe just the width of the tire changed not the diameter.

Originally Posted by Bill

Good year no longer makes Marathons - they have been supplanted by the Endurance line, which has different specs and options. Did you move to Endurance tires? If so, which ones?

NO I moved away from Marathon tires and am trying something fairly new to the market with a higher load rating and new composite materials.

I purchased Trailer King RST125/75R14. Yup here again Bill is still the same 14" diameters like the original tires and rims. The differance is these new tires have a load capacity of 2200lbs. The diameter is just a bit over 26". For the most part identical to the marathons... having higher load capacity on the tires I upgraded to 2200 load rims as well since they are cheap enough to do.

Originally Posted by Bill

After you made the change to 15-inch tires, did you ever have a tire failure? Tires don't always fail as a violent blowout. If a strip of the tread came loose (and perhaps detached entirely and flew off), it would cause the kind of damage to the arch of the fender well liner. In addition, you say that the tire contacted the fender well where it meets the floor of the trailer. For an intact tire, this is almost impossible, since it would require the tire to move horizontally - which it really can't - and there is a lot of horizontal clearance. In other words, if a tire moves up and down enough, it will contact the wheel well liner above it. But I don't know how it could move forward and back enough to contact the liner where it meets the floor

Again to clarify I NEVER went to 15" tires. Not sure where you are getting that. IF I stated that above it's in error but do t think it did. As I mentioned in the OP the tire on that side showed treads that did expand from the heat generated from friction. NONE of the tread however was missing from the tire. As for contact made. Please look at my last picture I posted. It clearly shown tire treads coming in contact with that lower portion of the fender well at the floor of the TM.

Originally Posted by Bill

Assuming you did not have a tire failure, another possibility is that you hit a piece of road debris such as an "alligator" at some point. It could have been carried up into the wheel well area and done damage.

😄 alligators up in my neck of the woods is none existent. Although I did travel to Florida a few times. No the fender well clearly shows the cutout indicative of the tire treads. It can clearly be seen in my picture posted. I will try and post a picture of the tire on that side of the TM so you can look at it and tell me what you think.

Originally Posted by Bill

As for the axle, did TM make the change in down angle as early as 2007? I know my 2006 did not have the change.

Do you know which axle you actually have? Did you read the tag on the axle, and decode it on the Dexter web site? That would confirm the starting angle.

Yes, Dexter recommends 3" clearance above the tire. We discussed that here on the Forum. After I made the change to 15" tires, I did not have quite that much clearance, but I had more than 1 1/2 inches

From a few posts I read here people seem to indicate that change was made in 2007. The axles down angle is confirmed as 22.5 degree down angle torflex by dexter.

Originally Posted by Bill

Finally, you say "I am leaning towards having to install a lift kit which ironically Trailmanor supplies to get extra clearance rather than change out the axle to the 45 degree down axle by dexter to gain clearance." First you say they did make the change to the axle. Then you say they didn't, so that they could sell a few lift kits. I'm confused. Are you suggesting that TM should retrofit an axle installed in 2005 with a new one?

So this is the kind of information we need. Can you fill us in? And by the way, TM has been making and selling trailers since 1990 or earlier.They have a lot of experience in building them, and a lot of user experience behind them. You might want to soft-pedal the design-flaw accusation until the issue gets sorted out.

Bill

Bill please read my OP I stated that my TM is a 2005 so if TM changed to a 45 degree down angle apparently post 2007 as some have suggested on the board my statements are consistent. The purpose of this post is to try see others suggestions so I cover my bases and correct the situation as best I can. In so doing I layed out the facts as best as I know them to be so that others can provide thier experience and insight. That's it. Is it possible that the wrong axle was picked out? Well that's for you to determine and tell me. My 2005 TM only had about 1.5" of clearance and still does. You stated yours also had a bit more than 1.5" clearance with a 15" tire you used. Dexter recommends 3" of clearance. Hence the need of a life kit. The new Trailmanors as I understand from others here have a 45 degree down angle axle and no lift kit. Others with older TMs have resorted to installing a lift kit needed with 15" tires. I DID NOT upgrade as the newer tires to 15". They are still 14" just are now higher load rated.

Again thanks Bill for your comments look forward to hearing other suggestions you might have for me.

[coralcruze]

Originally Posted by Wavery

It appears to me like the tire that is causing the wheel well damage is starting to come apart.

The reason that I say that is because you are experiencing contact with the front of the wheel well as well as the top. The only way that can happen (other than the complete axle moving aft) is if the tire is actually expanding at highway speed. This can be caused by excessive speed (centrifugal force) or tire tread separation.

Thanks for this. I think what you say is a possibility. Wonder what speed is needed for this type of expansion to occur. Great point.

[coralcruze]

Originally Posted by Bill

There is nothing magic about 2.5 inches. It appears that you need to add an inch of clearance, so one inch tube would do. On the other hand, lifts of 3" are common among owners who want to have more road clearance.

Bill

Apparently I need to pull a rabbit out of a hat to find it in my area Bill. 😆 I was told 3" is more common size. However having 1.5" now and using a lift kit that is 2.5" would bring me to over the necessary 3" that Dexter recommends and TM didn't/doesnt provide 3" of clearance.