Solar Shopping list and Starter Info

[SarainNC]

I am looking for a shopping list to do an initial solar setup. I have 1 AGM battery and wonder if that will work with any solar setup. Rick Stockton was gracious enough to offer to post a shopping list and I look forward to learning more from him and others about this.

I have a 2008 3124.

Thanks!
Sara

[rickst29]

As far as I know, 3124 models have a battery compartment in the rear, and the shells are both very long. This probably implies that you could put either 3 or four of the following flex panels on the rear shell:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ECO-100W-Wa...g/274262388725

The Renogy alternative is more expensive, both vendors have been highly rated for many years.

For AGM batteries (2* 100Ah?) I would use this solar controller, in either the '30A' or '40A' version. 2 small AGM batteries deserve neither, but you will eventually outgrow a '20a' solar controller. I own this controller, from this vendor in the 30A version. At mid-day in perfect sun, my "490 watts" of panels can put out more (and the controller rejects the excess power), but the 30A version supports 300-400 watts of panels very well. It's a great controller, although programming is not absolutely perfect for my LFP batteries: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Epever-MPPT...A/351875294014.

You will also need some solar wire from Amazon, and some 3M double-sided "VHB tape" (available from Amazon). The amount of VHB tape depends on the number of solar panels: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007Y7DVH6/.

[SarainNC]

Thanks. Our battery sits on the tongue currently but it seems like it might be best to move it to the couch with the water tank if that is possible. How do you then route and plan for the wires from the Solar Panel to where it needs to go inside the rig and to the battery? Do the wires come with it or if not, what needs to be purchased for that?

Thanks -

[rickst29]

After you have determined your panel locations (front or back shell), you will be ready to measure your wire lengths and buy a few more things, less expensive:

Solar wire: 'Windy Nation' #10 AWG. https://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-G...dp/B01D7VBMPU/ Be sure to buy at least a few feet more than you need, to handle unexpected routing requirements, and wiring between panels.

It is likely that your that your panels will need to have some wire added between the panel "pigtails", in order to reach from one panel to the other. In doing that, you will cut shorter segments from the long wire and add MC-4 connectors (male and female) to allow connection to the pigtails. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082SN4323/. You can crimp them with pliers or electric wire cutter tools, although Amazon also sell a special tool to reach in and crimp the wires. (I used pliers on my extensions.) An MC-4 connector cannot be removed or re-used, so buy more than you need. When you need to create a bare wire end, just cut any existing connector completely off.

For running the wire pair down the side of the shell in a vertical direction (street side, ending near one of the lift arms) the following home depot raceway looks pretty good: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Legrand-...NMW1/100038290. But the adhesive isn't sufficient to hold the raceway in place against the wind and weather. This is the only place where you need to use screws on a TM shell.

Cut the raceway to start and end along the flat portion of the shell, not quite reaching the upper and lower framing reinforcement members. Open the raceway, the remove the adhesive cover strip and and stick it on using the adhesive. Then put 3-4 TINY screws into the middle of the attached raceway side, spread across it's length (with the end screws about an inch from each end). Note that your solar wire twists down from the top, over the frame reinforcement and into the raceway - but the bottom needs a 1/2 loop of extra length, similar to other TM wire bundles, before your wire pair goes down the lift arm.

You will need another 1/2 loop at the bottom. You can use zip ties to attach the wire pair to the lift arm, replacing the zip ties every few years. The ends of the wires which go into the solar controller do not have mc-4 connectors, you simply strip them and wire-connect to regular AWG-10 wire before adding fuses. Connect the BLACK wire to the solar minus terminal. DO NOT connect the RED "Solar +" wire until everything else is done.

[rickst29]

The long "Solar +" Solar Wire from the roof should be the red wire, and the long "-" grounding Solar Wire should be the Black wire. There are two ways to wire solar panels - "series" and "parallel".


Most TM owners wire in parallel, using pairs of these "branch splitters": https://www.amazon.com/BougeRV-Conne...dp/B07DJ5PHSB/

The two advantages of wiring in parallel are #1, a single panel under shade or completely failed (or two out of 3 panels) does not harm the performance of the other "good" panels; and #2 the total VOLTAGE remains low.

But I wired my 4 panels in series. The two advantages of wiring in series are #1, less wire, no branch connectors needed (each "+" output goes to the "-" input of the next panel); and #2 the total CURRENT remains low, equal to the current of the "weakest" panel.
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Running 4 panels in parallel creates 4x as much current at the same voltage. Running 4 panels in series creates 4x as much voltage, with the current of only one panel. Power losses in the long solar wires ("Voltage Drop") increase with current-squared, so wiring in series is more efficient - as long as all 4 panels are working correctly. With just one panel failure, however, the whole "solar array" goes dead.

High Voltage is irrelevant for you, because I recommended a Solar Controller which handles up to 150 Volts quite easily. For people with "bad" Solar Controllers, too much voltage can kill the controller.

It is possible to run 4 panels in multi-mode, 2 pairs of "Two Panels in Series" connected to each other in Parallel, using one pair of splitters. For you, if you choose to get 4 panels, that might be optimal. Twice the Voltage and Twice the current, rather than 4x of one or the other, into the Solar Controller.
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Whether it is a Series or Parallel Connector, do not connect your long RED wire to it's corresponding branch connector "Solar + output" (on the final solar panel or branch connector). You CAN connect the long black wire "Solar Ground Input" for the panels. Then route your wires down the side of the shell, clamp to a lifting arm, and route to your TM entry holes near the Solar Controller. At the Solar Controller ends, cut off the final MC-4 ends of the Solar wires, and push the wires into your entry hole.

[rickst29]

Verify against a "battery -" post that neither of the Solar Wires has any voltage.

Then, with separate wire nuts, connect a short lead of AWG-10 from the Solar BLACK wire. This wire should be white, you are switching from "international" wire colors to TM wire colors. A similar wire lead AWG-10, color black, connects to the Solar RED wire. (TM wiring uses WHITE for 12v grounding wires, and BLACK for + positive voltage. You can stay with red for positive voltage, if you really want to - but don't leave the grounding "Solar -" wire as black color, it will confuse other people later on.

The black wire (from Solar Red) goes into a 30A Circuit Breaker, with another black lead coming out. Turn the Circuit Breaker "off".
- - - -
Then do the solar Controller Connections:

First, from the 'System Monitor' Battery, connect the plug into the not-yet-live Solar Controller.

Second, connect a lead from the battery(s) "-" into "Battery -" on the Solar Controller.

Third, connect a lead from battery "+" into the Solar Controller "Battery +" terminal. This wire must be fused (or circuit breaker) to allow the maximum output current of the Solar Controller, and nothing more. The Solar Controller and Monitor will activate, although they do not yet receive any power from the Solar Panels.

Fourth, connect the WHITE wire lead (Connected from BLACK "Solar -") from the Solar Array into the "Solar -" terminal.

Do not yet connect the BLACK wire (from the RED "Solar +"). After verifying the circuit breaker to be "off", go back to the TM roof and connect the RED connector to the Solar Array. (You might need to collapse the shells to do that, and re-open afterwards).

Fifth: (Carefully!) Check DC Voltage in the Black wire from "Solar +" against a battery "-" terminal, after activating the circuit breaker. If Voltage is high (above 16V for "parallel" wiring, and much higher for "series wiring [50-90V depending on the type and number of panels] then all of your wiring is good, and power is being received. Switch the circuit breaker back to "off", and connect the black wire into "Solar +"

Finally: Activate the circuit breaker. The Solar Charger should now be working. And finally, seal the solar wire entry hole (with wires in place) using a fast-cure "boat sealant".

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by SarainNC

Thanks. Our battery sits on the tongue currently but it seems like it might be best to move it to the couch with the water tank if that is possible. How do you then route and plan for the wires from the Solar Panel to where it needs to go inside the rig and to the battery? Do the wires come with it or if not, what needs to be purchased for that?
Thanks -

The best places for a Solar Controller with front-mount batteries are on the end or front of a lower couch compartment. Solar wires come in from underneath the TM body, where they are held in place (with just a tiny bit of "extra" wire length for the lift arm) with these clamps: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-3...-CTN/100580531

Or, as TM did, use a few of these "cable clamps". They are more prone to break, but use only one screw: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...0UVB/100175900 With either clamp, use 3/4" stainless steel screws - going into one layer of the TM shell, but not through the other and into the cabin.

Bring the solar wire up and into the TM cabin before stripping and connecting the "+" into a Circuit Breaker, maybe these guys (which takes stripped wire straight in), size 20A, 30A, or 40A depending on your Solar arrangement. One for the "Solar +" side, another for the "battery +" side: https://www.amazon.com/Audio-Inline-.../dp/B0834VZ2X8. I have at least 6 of these things, in different amperage values for different purposes. (My own "Solar +" in is 20A, My Solar Controller to "Battery +" is 40A with AWG-8 wire.)
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An AGM battery (or 2) would need a vent, if moved into a cabin location. I absolutely recommend against that, due to poisonous and explosive gasses which are released by charging or slightly overcharging a Lead-Acid battery. (A damaged battery releases Hydrogen Sulfide, H2S, in copious amounts when being charged. Sulfuric Acid and explosive Hydrogen gas are the other two major and dangerous released components in the lead-acid charge and discharge cycle.)

My batteries are inside the TM, under a couch -- but they are Lithium Iron Phosphate, (AKA "LiFePO4", AKA "LFP") and they never release dangerous gasses.
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With Lead Acid batteries on the tongue, and an MPPT Solar controller inside the TM (at the wall of the "front lower box" or the side of couch support box), you have 4 wires coming in and going out: "Solar +", "Solar -", "Battery +", and "Battery -". "Battery +" can be fused (circuit breaker) inside a battery box, before it connects to a battery terminal, or it can be fused next to the solar controller, before it exists the TM interior. "Solar +" should have its Circuit Breaker next to the Solar Controller, inside of the TM.

[rickst29]

Originally Posted by SarainNC

Thanks. Our battery sits on the tongue currently but it seems like it might be best to move it to the couch with the water tank if that is possible. How do you then route and plan for the wires from the Solar Panel to where it needs to go inside the rig and to the battery? Do the wires come with it or if not, what needs to be purchased for that?
Thanks -

Leave AGM and other Lead-Acid batteries on the tongue. The solar wires comer down a street-side lift arm (mine are on the front arm of the front shell), with small bits of extra length above and below for stretching with shell opening and closing. The places where Solar wire could rub against a frame member or lift arm, are taped for extra safety (electrical tape). The tape has never worn through.

From the bottom of the lift arm, the solar wires can go through the large frame holes which allow for torsion bar movement. (The wires may get shoved out of the way when frame arms lift, or they may have no contact at all. The twisting torsion bars have never shown any significant contact on any of my wires.) See Picture. Then, they go through a wire clamp and up, into the cabin, near the solar controller. (You can ignore a battery grounding wire which I have there - just two wires for you.)
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The Solar Controller goes inside, on either the front wall or a panel of a couch/storage box. If attached to a couch/storage panel - add vertical strips of 1x1" or 1x2" reinforcement wood to help support the controller, they're too heavy for the thin panels. Bring the strips all the way down to the bottom wood strips of the couch/storage frame, so that weight is transferred to the TM floor through your vertical strips.

My Solar Controller is on the front 'box' wall, but my position requires that the table be left open at all times - it blocks the table tilt into the wall" feature on my 2619 model.
- - -
With batteries on the front, a similar hole near the Solar Controller will provide for two Controller "output to battery" wires. These can be led along the frame to enter a battery box without an opportunity to "flap in the wind", although they will be mostly concealed by front shell when traveling. The water/dirt protection seal (at the bottom of the "box" front, contacting the shell in lowered position) shell never harmed my wires when I had them simply "flapping" to reach the nearest battery box.

With battery(s) on the front A-frame, I would recommend that the fuse (or circuit breaker) for the Solar Controller "battery +" wire be put inside the battery box, rather than inside the TM near the Controller.

[TammyandTony]

There's a lot of good information in here, and I expect to follow it as well.
Except .. I have a 2720SL, battery in back under the bed.

I am mostly looking for panel recommendations.
The back shell measures just about 45" from after the bag seal lip to where the end of the shell curves down. There is 41" horizontally in between seams on each side.

I want to build a 100W (expandable to 200) system, with 1 12V ~100AH AGM battery. Battery is flexible as I need a new one anyway.
I was looking at the Eco-worthy 100W flexible panels.
They are 45.3" long (according to website).
That would require a bend at the very end, or some sort of extension for the last 1/2" of panel.

My plan for mounting was about 30% coverage of VHB around perimeter and then frame with Flex-seal white tape. I was hoping this would provide good hold, but still allow removal if necessary.

I would appreciate any thoughts on the viability of this and any alternate recommendations.

Tony

[rickst29]

WindyNation is also rated very high as a seller, and "his" 100w panels are 42.3" x 20.5". It sounds like those might save the inch or so which you need to avoid sharp bending.

Do not add flex-seal, any gaps would tend to trap water underneath.