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02-04-2005, 02:03 PM
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#1
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Guest
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Air Bags vs Air Shocks
I need your help in making a decision. I have a Ford F-150 V8 and a 3023 Trailmanor. When I am hook up the Trailer it sets the rear of the pickup down. TM pulls level however the Ford F-150 is not level. I want to raise the bed of the truck and need to know Pros and Cons of Air Bags vs Air Shocks. Which route should I take
Looking forward to your answers.
Mike
Sugar Land, TX
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02-04-2005, 02:19 PM
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#2
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NW OHIO
Posts: 267
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Try timbren, cost about $143.00 love them 2004 1500 dodge ram quad cab www.timbren.com also have 3023 Trailmanor and WDH
__________________
PREVIOUS ONWNER OF A 2004 3023 Trailmanor 2004 1500 Dodge Ram Quad Cab Timbren SES and Supersprings 4-Rancho RS9000X shocks 3 inch front lift kit Drawtite front hitch Valley Odyssey brake controller
:new_evil: R. V. THERE YET! New 2007 Outback Sydney 31RQS 2006 2500 Heavy Duty 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins Diesel CTD
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02-04-2005, 02:58 PM
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#3
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Guest
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Tow with a weight distribution hitch
Mike, what you need is a weight distribution hitch that will distribute the trailer's tongue load over all four wheels of your truck. This is a typical one manufactured by Reese:
http://www.reeseprod.com/
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02-04-2005, 05:18 PM
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#4
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Guest
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This raises an in-depth question: If the TM is level but the Tow vehicle is not, what options are available?
---Add a WDH, while this is probably the most common solution, but what if the height (stance) of the vehicle is too high to tow the TM level?
*Should you add a leaf to your rear suspension?
*Should you add springs or air shocks to the tow vehicle?
*If you use springs or air shocks, should you use a draw bar with a drop to make the TM level?
*If you use springs, air shocks, or add a leaf, should use a lift kit for the TM to make the TM level for towing?
By trying to correct one issue do you create another, making the TM unlevel (Front higher than the rear) for safe towing? I suppose the question is at what degree is it unsafe to tow the TM?
I believe some WDH's have a small drop built within the system, but will that be enough for Mike?
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02-04-2005, 09:29 PM
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#5
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 816
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NEVER use air bags or shocks to level a tow vehicle!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikewgolf
I need your help in making a decision. I have a Ford F-150 V8 and a 3023 Trailmanor. When I am hook up the Trailer it sets the rear of the pickup down. TM pulls level however the Ford F-150 is not level. I want to raise the bed of the truck and need to know Pros and Cons of Air Bags vs Air Shocks. Which route should I take
Looking forward to your answers.
Mike
Sugar Land, TX
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Under no circumstances should you be even thinking about trying to level your truck by using some suspension booster on the rear suspension. As Larry_Loo mentions above, the ONLY safe and effective way to level your truck with the TM attached is via a Weight Distributing Hitch. What you think is "sets the rear" down is actually the result of three actions: - The rear suspension is indeed being compressed by the trailer's tongue weight, which is about 700 lbs for 3023. This is the part most people intuitively understand and want to compensate for with some form of rear suspension booster. But it's only part of the problem and actually the least serious part.
- Through a teeter-totter action with the truck's rear axle acting as pivot, the front of the truck is being un-weighted (or lifted) by a force that's about half of the tongue weight (the effect is almost the same as taking the engine out of the truck!). That's 350 lbs off the front end which raises the front end by at least an inch, reduces the front tire steering capability, reduces the front tire braking effectiveness and makes the front end feel "floaty"
- The weight that comes off the front suspension doesn't disappear into space, rather it gets transferred to the rear suspension and compresses that even more. So you actually wind up with over 1000 lbs being put on the truck's rear suspension.
The final result is the front of the truck goes up an inch or two at the same time the rear goes down an inch or two and it looks like the rear end is really sagging because of the combination of these two movements.
So why do I think that air bag/shocks are so horrible and that they should be banned from sale in this country? There are two reasons: - Raising the rear of the truck until it's level with the front does absolutely nothing to fix the unweighting of the front wheels and transfer of weight from front to back. You still have greatly reduced steering and braking with the front tires.
- All trucks have a brake proportioning valve on their rear axle which uses rear suspension compression to determine what percentage of applied brake pressure the rear brakes should get. With the truck unloaded at its normal rear ride height, that's not a very large number...maybe 25%. If you raise the rear of the truck to match the front (which is an inch or two higher than it's normally at), the brake proportioning valve almost completely closes off all brake fluid to the rear brakes and the front brakes have to do over 90% of the braking. That in turn leads to overheated and very rapidly wearing front brakes (which have limited braking effectiveness to begin with). The net result is a huge reduction in the truck's overall braking ability and that is just downright dangerous in a panic stopping situation.
That's why I completely despise air bags/shocks for towing and consider anyone who uses them to be a menace to themselves and anyone else who's unfortunate to have to share the road with them.
By contrast, a properly adjusted Weight Distributing Hitch distributes roughly a third of the tongue weight to the front suspension, a third to the rear suspension, and a third to the trailer tires. So, with a 3023, that means that about 250 lbs are added to the front (instead of 350 lb coming off) and 250 instead of 1000 lbs goes on the rear (so rear suspension compression in minimal). The truck squats equally front and rear (so it stays level) and even more importantly, the brake proportioning valve is opened so the rear brakes will do more and not less of the braking. It's a total win-win situation and the direct opposite of the lose-lose-lose situation that comes from using air bags for leveling.
__________________
Ray
I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers
The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)
The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)
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02-04-2005, 09:49 PM
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#6
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TrailManor Master
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CastleRockCamper
This raises an in-depth question: If the TM is level but the Tow vehicle is not, what options are available?
---Add a WDH, while this is probably the most common solution, but what if the height (stance) of the vehicle is too high to tow the TM level?
*Should you add a leaf to your rear suspension?
*Should you add springs or air shocks to the tow vehicle?
*If you use springs or air shocks, should you use a draw bar with a drop to make the TM level?
*If you use springs, air shocks, or add a leaf, should use a lift kit for the TM to make the TM level for towing?
By trying to correct one issue do you create another, making the TM unlevel (Front higher than the rear) for safe towing? I suppose the question is at what degree is it unsafe to tow the TM?
I believe some WDH's have a small drop built within the system, but will that be enough for Mike?
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The ONLY solution is to use a WDH to level the tow vehicle and never, ever to use any booster spring or air system for tow vehicle leveling.
Once the tow vehicle is level, the trailer is leveled by raising or lowering the hitch's ball mount relative to the hitch shaft. Unlike the fixed drop of non weight distributing hitches, nearly all WDH have a fairly wide range of "drop" adjustability (typically 7 inches, some have as much as 12 inches) between the ball mount and the center of the shaft. For instance, when I used my Jeep for towing, the hitch shaft was 14 inches off the ground; with my Tundra the hitch shaft is 17 inches off the ground and that would have caused my trailer to be very hitch high/tail low. But since the hitch shaft ends in an modified L-shape, all I had to do was unbolt the WDH's ball mount from its hitch shaft (L had been pointing up), then flip the hitch shaft over (put the L pointing downward) and rebolt the ball mount to it at a different vertical bolt slot. Even though the hitch shaft is now 3 inches further from the ground, the distance from the top of the ball to the ground wound up exactly the same and so the trailer is still level.
__________________
Ray
I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers
The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)
The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)
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02-05-2005, 09:00 AM
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#7
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Site Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 102
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Level TV
I've attached a photo of my 3/4 TON Dodge VAN with the 3023 attached without the Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH). It was apparent when the dealer and I hooked it up that it was going to need a WDH. I think any of the available hitches would have been fine but I chose the Equalizer (brand name).
You might find it useful to read their installation instructions since they addresses the leveling and weigh distribution that Ray has described. You can also see the flexibility in the height adjustment.
http://www.equalizerhitch.com/Equal-...structions.pdf
This WDH is more expensive and heavier than some hitches but it's well made and easy to use. If you get one be sure to order the 2 inch ball that fits it. This hitch accepts a 1 1/4 inch shank which is unusual in a 2 inch hitch ball.
May you enjoy level towing. Ray
__________________
04 - 3023 with 180W solar panels - Morningstar SunSaver MPPT Charge Controller - TriMetric Battery Monitor
- 02 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L Equalizer Hitch - Prodigy Brake Controller
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02-05-2005, 10:08 AM
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#8
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Site Team
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 10,200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikewgolf
When I am hooked up, the Trailer sets the rear of the pickup down. TM pulls level however the Ford F-150 is not level. I want to raise the bed of the truck and need to know Pros and Cons of Air Bags vs Air Shocks. Which route should I take
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Mike -
Don't use either, please!
First, get a weight distributing hitch. Set it up properly, and the truck should be level. If the TM is not level at this point, then you need to raise or lower the hitch ball. The ball height is adjustable on every WDH I have ever seen.
This is the ONLY proper way to level both the tow vehicle and the trailer.
Bill
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02-06-2005, 08:30 PM
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#9
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Guest
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Thank You
Bill, Ray, Leon, Ripp, Larry Loo & CastleRock,
I appreciate all the response. You have given me excellent information to base my decision. I was not even looking into a WDH system.
I was planning to have the Air Bags installed next week. However due to the information you all have sent I am now looking into a WDH system.
Thanks & Happy Camping
Mike & Deb
Sugar Land, TX
All of you make this site awesome
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02-09-2005, 10:59 PM
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#10
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Site Sponsor
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 128
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I used both a WDH and air bags. The WDH allowed me to distribute the weight and tow level, and the bags helped smooth the ride out. I don't know why, but I got better gas mileage, too. Not much, but 1 - 2 mpg. This setup worked well for me.
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