Towing a TM with a Rivian EV report

[larsdennert]

Managed to get a camping spot at the beach and decided to take a long weekend from Los Angeles to the Santa Barbara area. First time towing with the R1S and I'm happy with the range efficiency with our 2720 TrailManor. Certainly more aerodynamic and easier to tow and store. The Rivian normally has a 380 mile range in our configuration. Fast charging stops typically take 30-40 minutes.

LA traffic and freeways means you are going around 60mph with the opportunity to go faster once you get out of LA. We chilled the whole way only exceeding 65 a couple of times and only doing 55 in traffic. Here are the stats for the trip to the beach. There are hills up and down with a net decrease in altitude from 700ft to sea level. 1.6 miles per kw was much better that I expected. I would say 1.5 was the usual fifteen minute average. 225 miles of range is more than I could have hoped for and means I can go round trip without charging since I only used 40% battery getting here. Our GX470 doesn't do much better for range on this trip.

Amazing weather after the coast took such a beating last week. Five passengers in the Rivian.

I had a spare adjustable pintle hitch I was able to use as the receiver is a different height than our GX470. The pintle has high overcapaity of 10k lbs. One item to note is that the rivian receiver is thicker than most with extra plating due to the higher towing capacity. A standard stinger pin may not reach all the way through to clip. Two of my three weren't long enough.

Free power so I plugged in with a TT30EV adapter to get 5mph. Used a 5-15 adapter for the trailer since it doesn't need much juice if at all.

Click on photos for properly rendered orientations.

[rickst29]

Thanks for the report!

In this video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss0ThXqPIbs

they towed relatively tall trailer, getting about about 0.9miles per kwH with both F-150 Lightning and the Rivian Pickup during a longer but roughly comparable trip. (Their Rivian had the 130kwh battery pack, your SUV might be equipped differently.)

Rivian was showing around 1.6 miles per kwH and very high remaining range while towing in the upper half of the battery, but then dropped performance numbers hard (to around 0.6 miles per kwH, as the battery become more run-down. F-150 did a better job of projecting remaining capacity over the trip as a whole.

Their round trip included larger altitude gain/loss than yours, and the tall trailer box was much worse (for wind) than towing a low-loaded flatbed or TM. But you should take care on the way back: If your Rivian showed 60% remaining on the way out, you probably WON'T MAKE IT HOME without charging.

Based on their testing, I'd SWAG the real-world performance to be around 1.2 miles per Kwh. The Ford did a better job for Edmunds because it asked for specific trailer weight and size information, while their Rivian pickup only asked "are you towing"?

[oldstick]

Beat me up if you want to.

But please at least wait a few years before doing so, to see if I am right or wrong on this prediction. Jan 2024 I am predicting that the EV idea will be a busting disappointment. Double and triple disappointment if one is expecting the vehicle to also be able to tow something on the order of what most any typical camper weighs.

[Shane826]

oldstick- Do you mean a disappointment to larsdennert in particular or to the industry as a whole? I think EVs have their place. My wife had a Nissan Leaf and loved it when her commute was less than 5 miles but hated it when sh changed jobs and had to drive 35-40 miles each way. But I don’t think they will be the end all be all savior of the planet that the politicians are pushing for… GM and Ford already shut down EV production because they can’t sell them.

Story time. When I worked for the City of Rochester they wanted to explore electric garbage trucks. The local Mack truck dealer would need to have charging capabilities in order to sell them. Makes sense, gotta be able to service what you sell, right? Rochester Gas & Electric said the current infrastructure wouldn’t handle that kind of power demand neither they nor the Mack dealer were looking to pay for the upgrade. So the dealer went back to Mack and said “Now what do we do?” Mack’s solution, I kid you not, was to install a 50,000 watt diesel generator so they could charge the electric trucks. Wow. Just wow. Needless to say, the Mack dealer isn’t selling electric trucks.

The City of Rochester was also looking at electric police cars until they realized each unit was roughly $7,500 more expensive than a gas police car, and they’d need twice as many vehicles so they could have one charging for every one on the road.

[centerisl]

Like larsdennert I too have a R1S (quad moter, he has dual motor and Max battery) - and we both have lifted GX470s. oldstick's opinion is certainly valid - in some situations. And that's the real issue here - vehicles have multiple missions...commuter, travel, recreation, utility, towing, etc. - and BEVs are not optimal across all of those. And as with anything that is...well, hyped...there are some over compensations. Look at Norway - vast majority of NEW vehicles are BEV but they still under 1/2 of vehicles on their roads. They are now refocusing on reducing the number of vehicles.

Meanwhile, some of us are fortunate to be able to have multiple vehicles - others must/choose to make do with one vehicle (or even vehicle sharing).

Everything is a compromise - TMs are the epitome of that. If all travel trailers cost the same, had the same towing/maintenance/cost/storage characteristics, I suspect most folks would be rocking 30' Airstreams.

So a TM represents an optimization - one that aligns with the owners and prospective owners on this forum. BEVs - and Rivians in particular - are the same. Where it gets truly interesting is when there's a further optimization of BEV + Travel Trailer - and that's where folks like larsdennert are pushing the envelope - for which we all benefit.

[oldstick]

Originally Posted by Shane826

oldstick- Do you mean a disappointment to larsdennert in particular or to the industry as a whole? I think EVs have their place. My wife had a Nissan Leaf and loved it when her commute was less than 5 miles but hated it when sh changed jobs and had to drive 35-40 miles each way. But I don’t think they will be the end all be all savior of the planet that the politicians are pushing for… GM and Ford already shut down EV production because they can’t sell them.

Story time. When I worked for the City of Rochester they wanted to explore electric garbage trucks. The local Mack truck dealer would need to have charging capabilities in order to sell them. Makes sense, gotta be able to service what you sell, right? Rochester Gas & Electric said the current infrastructure wouldn’t handle that kind of power demand neither they nor the Mack dealer were looking to pay for the upgrade. So the dealer went back to Mack and said “Now what do we do?” Mack’s solution, I kid you not, was to install a 50,000 watt diesel generator so they could charge the electric trucks. Wow. Just wow. Needless to say, the Mack dealer isn’t selling electric trucks.

The City of Rochester was also looking at electric police cars until they realized each unit was roughly $7,500 more expensive than a gas police car, and they’d need twice as many vehicles so they could have one charging for every one on the road.

Yep, very sorry I wasn't that clear. I meant in general for the public and the automotive industry and the economy overall. Ignorant eggheads, plus governments all over the world are trying to browbeat all of us into something they know full well is not going to work for most peoples lifestyles. Not without additional extremely exorbitant price tags, which they are happily anticipating to collect from each and every one of us.

[Wavery]

As I'm reading this thread, I'm watching a news report about EV charging stations all over the North that are jammed with dead EVs and charging stations that eith don't work or won't charge because it's too cold.

If you try to charge a lithium battery at sub-freezing temps, the battery can be damaged so the charging stations are programmed to shut down at certain temps. What a fiasco.

[oldstick]

Originally Posted by centerisl

Like larsdennert I too have a R1S (quad moter, he has dual motor and Max battery) - and we both have lifted GX470s. oldstick's opinion is certainly valid - in some situations. And that's the real issue here - vehicles have multiple missions...commuter, travel, recreation, utility, towing, etc. - and BEVs are not optimal across all of those. And as with anything that is...well, hyped...there are some over compensations. Look at Norway - vast majority of NEW vehicles are BEV but they still under 1/2 of vehicles on their roads. They are now refocusing on reducing the number of vehicles.

Meanwhile, some of us are fortunate to be able to have multiple vehicles - others must/choose to make do with one vehicle (or even vehicle sharing).

Everything is a compromise - TMs are the epitome of that. If all travel trailers cost the same, had the same towing/maintenance/cost/storage characteristics, I suspect most folks would be rocking 30' Airstreams.

So a TM represents an optimization - one that aligns with the owners and prospective owners on this forum. BEVs - and Rivians in particular - are the same. Where it gets truly interesting is when there's a further optimization of BEV + Travel Trailer - and that's where folks like larsdennert are pushing the envelope - for which we all benefit.

I agree 100%. Every type of vehicle has it's own place in the scheme of things. Whether that be a bicycle, golf cart, motorcycle or whatever. Waiting to see what the future holds about electric "over the road" cars or trucks before I change my mind on those. Around the southeast, even older used gasoline/propane powered golf carts sell for extra premium prices. Anyone that has one wants to hang on to it. Very few people want to replace them with a battery powered unit.

[larsdennert]

In case anyone is interested, here is the return efficiency. The elevation indicator is wrong for some reason. I'm at around 800ft. Virtually the same for me so I'm not worried. Yea Chicago had issues for a couple of days charging cars. Last year Big Bear, CA didn't have gasoline for a week due to the enormous storm but never lost electricity. My neighbor (in Big Bear) said it was bad.
There weren't enough gas stations when cars were invented. It was a problem but horses weren't ideal either. Electrical outlets are at least an existing infrastructure. If you tow a lot for long distances, EV is not a good choice. For the amount I do it and the distances I go with it I have no issue. You can see that the Rivian now calculates the weight of the trailer automatically and refines the range as it learns the trailer and driving habits. It also doesn't run in any conserve or eco mode when towing. Without a trailer, the range on mine is about 380 miles.

[jdmackes]

I just picked up my 2720 with my F-150 Lightning. I was getting aroudn 1.6-1.7 miles per kw when I was towing over flat ground, so I was pretty happy with that. Didn't have any issues with pulling into charging stations with the trailer attached, but I did use Tesla chargers as they tended to have more space and more available. I also love the idea of powering the trailer from my truck, as I have the pro-power onboard system; just hooked up to the L14-30P in the truck bed and used an adapter to go to the tt-30