Diesel vs Gas

[Padgett]

Having just sold my Vixen I no longer have a diesel but was amazed at the 2.4 liter 6's ability to move the 6500 lb rig.

If a diesel had been available when I bought the GC, I would have seriously considered it because of the added efficiency, but not for the premium demanded.

When gas was cheap, a big (400 cid) V8 was my preference but that was when American 6 cyl were small and underporered, the V6 in my GC has more HP than the V8 Pontiac (in fact it has more power than an E-Jag) & in the interim I used a 3800 V6 Buick in a minivan for towing (but was always overloaded). A selling point of the GC was the 5,000# rating for the towing package and under $30k OTD (new was only a few hundred more than used and dealer had exactly what I wanted).

OTOH the VM diesel in the '14s is a wonderful engine with 420 lb-ft of torque from a 3.0 DOHC turbo V6. The problem is the $4500 option plus it is only available in "upscale" versions (have a convertible, do not want a panoramic sunroof) so the total is north of $45k.

So you have a $15k shot there and in Florida 87 PON is now $3.25 and Diesel is $4/gallon. So I am paying 20% less at the pump for 22% worse MPG (18vs23). Break even is not this century.

This could change. In many parts of the country diesel fuel is less than 87 PON and eventually CJF may offer the diesel in the Laredo trim (no sunroof).

And on the gripping hand, direct injection allows diesel like CR and much higher RPM from 87 PON gasahol engines so the only thing we know about the future is that it will be different.

ps didn't mention 4 or 8 cyl engines. Have no use for them this century. YMMV.

[Redtail Cruiser]

That is a lot of info, with the point being...?

[Padgett]

Helps me to refine my thinking and may help others. Point being that while diesel is great, unless you already have one, it may not make sense economically. Secondly that with direct injection (like in the EcoBoost) & boost, 87 PON may approach (but doubt that it will reach) diesel efficiency.

The correlary being why have Fords with Ecoboost V6s reported such poor MPG ? Do they need a good tune ? First though being at what PLA (throttle position) does the engine go into PE (power enrichment) and could that be raised ? (mine occurs at about 53% and I can see the pulse width of the injectors increase (need the Torque Pro app and a $12 OBD-II dongle).

If anyone is interested we could get really deep into maximising MPG when towing a TM on the flats. With particular attention on when to dowshift if it will keep you out of PE.

So to answer your question, it was a lead-in to see if anyone was interested in a deep discussion including why you need to know precisely how your engine is running.

Also I have found (small sample but high probability) that just by having average drivers know what is happening (proper instrumentation) their driving habits change and mpg improves. Back in the first fuel crisis the EPA (then the FEA) found that just adding a vaccuum gauge resulted in improved MPG.

[Redtail Cruiser]

OK, I just got back from 2,300 mile trip towing my TM, that took me to the Grand Canyon, Zion NP, cross the Rockies to Fort Collins and then back across the Rockies home to San Diego. My Ecoboost, on 87, averaged 14.3 MPG on cruise control set between 62 to 65mph, using my Tow/haul feature the entire trip. More than my old truck could have dreamed of.

I think that is decent mileage for a 4x4 towing a TM. My mileage without towing averages 17.4 mpg on flat Socal roads with 80% highway and 20% stop & go city. Again that is a lot better numbers that I got out of my '03 F150 w/ the 5.4L v8.

Good mileage is a relative term. Sure I could have gotten better MPG, if I would have waited to get the new Ecodiesel that Dodge just came out with, but I don't like Dodge trucks. So why would someone want to buy and drive a vehicle that they don't like, just to get better fuel mileage? Short answer is, they wouldn't.

As far as wanting to have a deep discussion about the pros and cons, I prefer to just pack it up and "go camping", rather than clutter my mind with "what if's and why's". But to each their own.

[hillbillyhotel]

( Good mileage is a relative term)

just let me say , that says it all,
on our last trip, was tickled to death @ 12 mpg,

[MT Camper]

I have to admit that I don't check my MPG because if I did I'd think I can't afford to go camping as much. I prefer to be in denial. I love to go and don't want anything to clutter my mind about camping that would be negative. Therefore the denial will continue.

By the way I do try to keep my foot off the gas petal when I can't use cruise control because I know I will get better MPG and trailers have a towing speed limit. Therefore I am doing my part as far as I am concerned.

Just my thoughts.

[hillbillyhotel]

mt
lol I agree, this is the first time I have checked a hole trip, I don't get any mpg not towing in her truck,,, but from Sidney oh. to summerset ky. was 15 mpg (flat land) on last trip, then the mountains, 9 mpg then, so at 12 mpg for the 1k trip I was ok with
but in my dodge , in denial also, I just keep it on temp. don't want to see the mpg. it's a dodge thing , had lots of them,

[davlin]

Originally Posted by Redtail Cruiser

OK, I just got back from 2,300 mile trip towing my TM, that took me to the Grand Canyon, Zion NP, cross the Rockies to Fort Collins and then back across the Rockies home to San Diego. My Ecoboost, on 87, averaged 14.3 MPG on cruise control set between 62 to 65mph, using my Tow/haul feature the entire trip. More than my old truck could have dreamed of.

I think that is decent mileage for a 4x4 towing a TM. My mileage without towing averages 17.4 mpg on flat Socal roads with 80% highway and 20% stop & go city. Again that is a lot better numbers that I got out of my '03 F150 w/ the 5.4L v8.

I agree that those are excellent towing mpg numbers! I could live with those, but I've read on other forums from Ecoboost owners that they are getting around 9 mpg while towing. I couldn't live with that. I'm guessing that I have a heavier total load (3124KS versus 2720) than you, which will effect overall mpg, but I drive about the same speed, which is also a major contributor to mpg, especially while towing.

My truck is primarily a tow vehicle (it is the third vehicle in a two person family), so non-towing mpg aren't as important to me.

Maybe some of the other Ecoboost TM members will join in with their experiences in towing mpg?

Dave

[MarkoPolo]

I typically get 14-16 mpg towing in the Colorado mountains. Usually 12 mpg going uphill and 18 mpg downhill. I'll get 18-20 mpg with just the truck.

[Redtail Cruiser]

Hey Hillbilly, I thought an Avalanche was a GM product. What kind of Dodge are you driving?

Mark, what grade of gas are you using? I've heard some are getting better mileage with higher octane.