Summary Of Extended Trip Out West

[Philip]

Hello Folks,

I thought it might be of interest to other campers to post a summary of specifics on a three month trip I just completed through the south/central western parks. I have always been curious at to costs and requirements(what works and doesn't) for an extended trip so I though I would share my experiences on this trip. Even though many items are subjective I hope this information helps other campers prepare for and aid in enjoying the extended camping experience.

I have a 2008 2720 towed with a 2005 Toyota 4Runner V8 with factory tow package, Prodigy brake controller and EZ WDH without sway control. We purchased the TM new in 2009 and this trip was the second time we used the trailer. The only changes I made to the TM prior to leaving was installing two new 4D Lifeline AGM batteries connected in parallel for a total capacity of 420 AH. These replaced the worthless battery supplied by the RV dealer I purchased the TM from. I also installed a Linklite battery monitor to keep tabs on the batteries.

Where did we go? I am only going to mention the major destinations so as not to bore you to tears. We left Pennsylvania on April 8 2010 and headed for our first National Park(NP) , Big Bend in Texas with stops in Nashville and Texas(to visit friends) along the way. Our path then went to the following in order: Sedona, AZ; Grand Canyon NP, AZ; Big Sur, CA; Yosemite NP, CA; Sequia NP, CA; Zion NP, UT; Bryce Canyon NP, UT; Capital Reef NP, UT; Arches NP, UT; Canyonlands NP, UT; Mesa Verde NP, CO; Durango, CO; Dinosaur NP, UT & Rocky Mountain NP, CO. We returned home on July 7 2010 after 12,800 miles.

What worked: The TM and TV were trouble free. I greased the bearings on the TM once during the trip. The battery upgrade served me well. Since we prefer to stay in state and national park campgrounds as they are generally more attractive and less costly, we needed the large battery capicity since many of these campgrounds have no electricity. With a full chage we are able to go at least seven days/nights before needing a charge. I only allow the batteries to discharge about 50% so as to get long life out of these expensive batteries. I also purchased an 11 gallon tote tank for waste water and an 8 gallon tote bottle for water. These worked great when we had no hookups at all. The TM does have the optional large 40 gallon water tank so we never had to get water too often. The TM towed great and stopped very well(evenly) during one emergency braking. The TV was plenty adequate for all hill climbs and long steep downgrades. Shifting the TV into lower gears made braking easy during steep/long decents.

What didn't work: The charging system on the TV could not keep up with the refrigerator demand while towing with the refrigerator on battery. I hesitated to run the refrigerator on propane when towing because of concern with propane while closed up and waste heat removal from the propane burner while closed up. I know people use propane when closed up but it makes me uneasy - further comments by other campers are welcome! So the batteries were always somewhat discharged(60 to 70% full) after towing for a day. I am investigating correcting this problem and believe I have the solution which was discovered by someone else. Another camper reported that he has always had the same problem and has solved it by increasing the wire size from the TV battery to the TM batteries(both plus and minus wires). The existing charging wires are too small and cause too great of a voltage drop which reduces charging current. You only have a rather small voltage difference from the TV regulator output(~14 volts) and the TM batteries(~12.5 to 13 volts) He increased the wire size on two TV's that he had and it solved the problem in each case. I don't have to increase the current output much to have it charge the TM batteries during towing.

The only other problem we experienced was with towing three bicycles on the TM with a hitch mounted bike rack. No bike rack is designed for towing on a trailer but we purchased a Thule revolver four bike rack because it was very convenient - it allowed us to open the trailer without removing the bikes and it appeared to be a strong rack. Alas, the pitching on the end of the TM was too much for it and it eventually failed on the Big Sur in CA. Fortunately it failed in a road construction zone where we were going slow and a construction worker flagged us down as soon as the rack failed resulting in minimal bike damage. What transpired from that point on is cocktail conversation for how wierd our luck was - this post is already too long.

Cost Summary: We kept detailed costs for the three people on the trip. Here is what we experienced: Campsite costs averaged 23 $/day for the 87 day trip. Average MPG for the TV for the total trip was 15 MPG. Total fuel cost was $2656. Average fuel cost was $3.12/gallon. I used mid octane fuel most of the time and premium gas while in the mountains. The TM met my requirements for an efficient trailer to tow. I would love to know what an equivalent box trailer with the requesite TV would average in MPG on a trip like this! I could belive less that 10 MPG. Daily cost per person above campsite and fuel costs was $30/day. This included all food(restaurants plus groceries), alcohol, repairs, maintenance, lodges, entertainment & misc. expenditures.

Tha, Tha, Tha, Thats all folks! Your eyes are probably glazed over by now - LOL!

In any event it is information I always wanted to know but could never find - so I thought I should share it.

Next year we hope to do the same type trip to the more nothern parks.

Take care,

Phil Friess

[ShrimpBurrito]

Great post. I think Mesa Verde NP is one of my favorite parks.

But holy cow, Phil, those are some serious batteries! I at first thought you had the Ah wrong, but when I looked the batteries up myself, I could not believe my eyes. Each one of them weigh 135 lbs! That's 270 lbs of batteries, which is an extra 200 lbs over what you had originally! I am pretty sure you get the trophy for having the biggest on the forum. They are also quite pricey....yikes.

Yes, it is likely that your fridge is consuming battery power when towing because the wiring between your TV alternator and the TM batteries is too small. Increasing the wire size slightly (maybe 10 AWG?) will solve the problem, but if you want to charge the batteries as well while towing, take a look at this thread:

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10587

We just completed a long trip too. We traveled a total of 7,000 miles -- our elevation ranged from sea level to 10,500 feet, and we crossed the Rockies twice. We always bought the cheap gas and we spent about $1,500 on fuel, but our average mileage was ~13 MPG.

Dave

[OneMoBear]

Phil,

Wow! What an awesome trip! If you're ever in the Denver area, we'll buy you a cocktail and listen to the rest of the bike story

Malinda

Great post. Dave is a great resource on suggestions to improve your charging performance. Another (free?) option to consider since you have a 2720 and thus tongue-mounted batteries is to cut into your trailer cable on the tongue and connect it to the batteries. The factory installation unnecessarily (and inexcusably IMHO) has your charge line running all the way to your converter and then back to the battery. From a schematic point of view you aren't even changing the wiring diagram but you are actually eliminating a good 20-30 feet of cable run. If your results match what I observed when I first did this change, you will be blown away at the improvement. I rank it as the single most bang for buck mod I have done to my TM (right above mounting a vinyl shower curtain to the folding bathroom walls)

Great post, Phil. You certainly got my attention with TWO 4d batteries. I used to see those on larger boats but never on a trailer much less a TM. Can't imagine what that did to your tongue weight assuming that is where they are mounted. But like you say, you get a LOT of amp-hours.

So now that you have our attention, tell us the bike story. I can just see them tumbling down the cliffs at Big Sur into the ocean.

Congrats on a great trip. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Keith

[ShrimpBurrito]

I just drove through the construction zone on the coast highway in Big Sur a few months ago. It is really tight up there.....but much better to deal with the bikes there vs. a freeway.

M&M Hokie made a great suggestion about eliminating that wire run. I have an SL model, so I didn't have that problem. But the fix he described would certainly be step 1 on my list.

Another solution to increasing your battery current is to install solar panels, but obviously it depends on when (time of day and time of year) & where you travel to determine how effective they might be.

Dave

[Philip]

Since You Requested It - Here Is The Bike Rack Story,

First it will not be as interesting since it is not over three or four rum & tonics but here goes:

So we are going slow thru this road construction zone on the Big Sur. What I didn't notice is that they have half buried a perhaps 10" dia pipe in the road and hardly covered it up with asphalt. It is actually like a sharp speed bump. I probably went over it at 15 - 20 MPH. The TM hopped in the air and at that point the bike rack must have given way.

After going over the pipe, a construction worker starts yelling at me to stop. I had a sinking feeling that it was to do with the bike rack although I cannot see it from the TV. Sure enough I stop and get out and find the rack has failed at the joint where the square horizontal tube(that runs into the hitch receiver) joins the vertical tube that goes to the arms that hold the bikes. The steel tube tore at this joint on the top and both sides of the square tube. The bottom of this tube bent(did not tear) and allowed the bikes to fall to the road and drag along the road. Two of the bikes front tires were worn thru to the rim and the rim was worn halfway thru at that spot.

As soon as I saw this mess my wife said I started cursing like a sailor(we actually cruised on our sailboat for ten years). I do remember saying that I was going to leave this whole freaken mess(bikes and rack by the side of the road). I soon came to my senses and looked closely at the rack failure location. By this time there was a few construction workers around me(probably thinking what a madman I was and getting a chuckle out of it all).

I immediately turned to them and said that what I needed was a welder! The worker next to me immediately said he was a welder! I asked if he could rapair it and he said sure. I took the bikes off the rack and the rack off the TM and walked it 20 feet down to his truck on which he had a complete electric welding rig complete with steel plate for welding. He wasn't busy and put the rack in a vise and proceeded to weld reinforcing plates on the sides of the tube and weld the top joint back together. In about 20 minutes the rack was all back together and on the TM with the bikes back on.

My wife and our friend with us were shocked! I couldn't believe it myself.

I gave him a BIG tip and thanked him profusely.

Talk about good fortune!!!!

May all you have such good fortune in your trials when you travel.

Take care,

Phil Friess

WOW! I want to travel near you. Great story.

[ShrimpBurrito]

A great story indeed. Sounds just like one time when I had a blowout and Santa Claus came by and fixed it in a jiffy. Or at least that's how I remember it.

Dave

A great story.

I am curious why you ran premium gas assuming it is not specified for your vehicle.