Upgrades, People, Upgrades

Autosnap · 07-24-2024, 05:25 PM

Hey Everyone,

So I'm doing a few changes to the electrical system on my 2720QB. I've attached a schematic that I knocked together, sorry about it being sideways, it just fits the page better that way for now. This is a work in progress. Any input on wire sizes, fuses, switches, hardware, routing would be much appreciated.

I've fallen off the wheel when it comes to where to take the negatives to the converter, or to the fuse board. Also, thinking of using a small fan in the Battery Compartment to keep things cool when the Inverter is running, I could use the USB port on the inverter, or if I want it to run while the Solar is running the solar has a load port, could do a small DC fan... Obviously, I would need vents, I was thinking similar to the Refrigerator compartment, but I don't want too much moisture to get in this bay.

I'm moving and upgrading the battery from the tongue to the back left storage compartment, along with all this gumph. Please give input on the automatic transfer switch, I would love to have it fixed to where it wouldn't run the converter to the battery bank on inverter power, but it only has a 15 amp fuse and I can't find a wiring diagram for the PD4655WL. If I can't use it, I'll just flip the inline breaker on the positives coming to the Battery Bay buss bar. before I turn on the inverter, that's not too much trouble.

I was thinking while I had the power center out, I could stabilize the shower floor as well.

Let me know what you think, and thanks for looking!

Best,
Brad (Autosnap)

Wavery · 07-24-2024, 05:54 PM

Looks good. A couple of suggestions.......... I would limit connectors to the pos battery terminal to one, except for the jumper cable.

The pos to the shunt and to the solar controller should go to your pos distribution block (busbar). You are missing the ground 4AWG cable from the PD controller/charger to the ground distribution block. The cable from the TV should go to the controller power center or directly to your pos distribution block, not the input to the PD controller/charger. The charger is for charging the batteries with 120V input and 14.4V output. You also need a path for your TV ground but I assume that you are using the frame?

You may also want to consider a 350A Class T (fast blow) fuse on the main positive terminal and your 4/0 cable to the shut-off switch can go on the other side of that fuse.

As for the ATS...... You have it wired incorrectly in the diagram. You want to wire the 120V input to the charger to the 120V input into the ATS along with your shore power plug. There are terminals and instructions that come with the Go-Power 30A ATS. When you plug into shore power, it will automatically cut off the power from the inverter and it will activate your charger. When you unplug from shore power, it automatically disconnects the charger. That is the whole purpose of the ATS. SO....... remove the 120V wires (in your drawing) from the busbars in the power center and run them to the ATS (in the same path as the shore power cord) and you'll be good.

Some changes can be made with the converter/charger when switching to lithium batteries. When we were using L/A batteries we were sorta relegated to the original wiring of the charger, going through the power center. The reason for that is because if the battery goes dead while you are camping (which was a common occurrence) you would still have access to 12V current from the charger to power the camper, even with the battery removed. However, lithium batteries (especially with the redundance that you have) are so much more reliable that the charger is no longer required to perform a "house power" function. It is now simply a battery charger. As such, it can be mounted anywhere that you want and it merely needs to have the 12V output wired to the pos & neg battery distribution blocks (just like your solar charging). Then, of course, you need to run 10G wire from the distribution blocks back to the 12V busbars in the power distribution panel. The only down side is that, if you remove the batteries, you will no longer have 12V house current. I just don't see that scenario happening...... ever.

What is the rectangle with a 20A in it?

Beautiful schematic though.

Autosnap · 07-24-2024, 08:08 PM

Thanks for your suggestions and kind words. Most of the stuff on the right came from the TM manual, but I don't know how out of date they are. I was going to fill it in as I went, but the blank box on the right with the 20a in it is the start of the fuse panel. I don't think it has the converter wiring correctly depicted.

I know I'll find some unknowns as I go as it doesn't have the stock solar in the manual, and my calls to TM have gone unanswered and unreturned.

I received my PD4655WL by FedEx today so I'm able to understand a bit more, but for all the instructions it came with, there was no diagram. I've tried to work this with advice I've seen on other threads, but I'm missing something.

I left my computer at work, so tomorrow I'll incorporate what I think you are telling me and do some cleaning and clarifications then put out rev2, along with closeups of questionable areas.

I like to have things planned and clear before I hop in, but the best laid plans of mice and men...

Thanks again for your invaluable help!

Best,
Brad

Wavery · 07-24-2024, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autosnap

Thanks for your suggestions and kind words. Most of the stuff on the right came from the TM manual, but I don't know how out of date they are. I was going to fill it in as I went, but the blank box on the right with the 20a in it is the start of the fuse panel. I don't think it has the converter wiring correctly depicted.

I know I'll find some unknowns as I go as it doesn't have the stock solar in the manual, and my calls to TM have gone unanswered and unreturned.

I received my PD4655WL by FedEx today so I'm able to understand a bit more, but for all the instructions it came with, there was no diagram. I've tried to work this with advice I've seen on other threads, but I'm missing something.

I left my computer at work, so tomorrow I'll incorporate what I think you are telling me and do some cleaning and clarifications then put out rev2, along with closeups of questionable areas.

I like to have things planned and clear before I hop in, but the best laid plans of mice and men...

Thanks again for your invaluable help!

Best,
Brad

Do you have any questions about the ATS wiring? That's probably the most important adjustment that you should make.

Maybe this will help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpICwTtAV_I&t=711s

Wavery · 07-24-2024, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autosnap

the blank box on the right with the 20a in it is the start of the fuse panel.

If you are going to add an additional fuse panel, you want to run that 10AWG wiring to your pos & neg distributor blocks. You could just put an inline 40A fuse in that line. A 60A breaker is too much for that 10AWG wire. The wire would melt before tripping the breaker.
Stay away from these fuse holders:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

I wouldn't cut that 4AWG wire and use some sort of connector. That would just be a source of future problems with loose connections and corrosion.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JZ5C29C...9ocXBfc2hhcmVk

Autosnap · 07-24-2024, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavery

If you are going to add an additional fuse panel, you want to run that 10AWG wiring to your pos & neg distributor blocks. You could just put an inline 40A fuse in that line. A 60A breaker is too much for that 10AWG wire. The wire would melt before tripping the breaker.

No additional fuse box, just the fuse panel in the 8955. Just found the actual diagram from the inside of the 8955 so I'll update the drawing accordingly.

What switches would you recommend? I was thinking about killing two birds with one stone by omitting the fuse and switch by using a breaker. But I'm not against it. Fuse then switch or other way around?

I think I was concerned about pushing 800w in 12v from the solar controller. I know it'll never actually get there so I went with 60amps, so you think I need to go with 4awg?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavery

I wouldn't cut that 4AWG wire and use some sort of connector. That would just be a source of future problems with loose connections and corrosion.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08JZ5C29C...9ocXBfc2hhcmVk

I'll take a deeper look tomorrow since the ATS should handle the job without the return.

**Bill** · 07-25-2024, 09:12 AM

Be aware that circuit breakers can have different ratings when used on DC circuits rather than AC circuits. This has to do with the fact that AC voltage and current waveforms go through zero 120 times per second, and this helps the circuit breaker properly interrupt the circuit. DC waveforms do not go through zero, so the breaker has to handle the worst-case fault by itself.

When you choose a breaker for a DC circuit, be sure to check its DC ratings. An inexpensive household breaker may not meet your need.

Bill

**jagizzi** · 07-25-2024, 09:13 AM

Another consideration if you are going to be that far into it. I wanted individual control of every DC circuit so that I could turn them on and off as needed. The Converter fuse panel was abandoned and I added a Blue Seas DC Breaker Panel. https://www.bluesea.com/products/8376/DC_13_Position. If fit beside the converter once I moved the converter over a bit. Great addition to the electrical system and I would do it again. No need to run any new wires as you are simply replacing the existing fuse panel.

I did something similar with the batteries but kept the LA up front for back up and to run the tongue jack. Also added battery string selection switch and cutoff. Added a photo of battery bay in an early phase. Your design is simpler and I'm already thinking of getting rid of the front batteries but am a bit concerned about tongue weight. Its a future project.

Note that when you move the batteries to the rear compartment you need to take the emergency trailer brake system into account and run that line back to the batteries before any disconnect switch.

Wavery · 07-25-2024, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagizzi

Another consideration if you are going to be that far into it. I wanted individual control of every DC circuit so that I could turn them on and off as needed. The Converter fuse panel was abandoned and I added a Blue Seas DC Breaker Panel. https://www.bluesea.com/products/8376/DC_13_Position. If fit beside the converter once I moved the converter over a bit. Great addition to the electrical system and I would do it again. No need to run any new wires as you are simply replacing the existing fuse panel.

I did something similar with the batteries but kept the LA up front for back up and to run the tongue jack. Also added battery string selection switch and cutoff. Added a photo of battery bay in an early phase. Your design is simpler and I'm already thinking of getting rid of the front batteries but am a bit concerned about tongue weight. Its a future project.

Note that when you move the batteries to the rear compartment you need to take the emergency trailer brake system into account and run that line back to the batteries before any disconnect switch.

Your set-up is quite different from Autosnap's set-up and could be a bit confusing for some.

Evidently, you aren't using an inverter or an ATS. Apparently, you have your batteries on separate monitoring systems. That set-up may work well for you but not at all what Autosnap is trying to accomplish.

Wavery · 07-25-2024, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autosnap

No additional fuse box, just the fuse panel in the 8955. Just found the actual diagram from the inside of the 8955 so I'll update the drawing accordingly.

What switches would you recommend? I was thinking about killing two birds with one stone by omitting the fuse and switch by using a breaker. But I'm not against it. Fuse then switch or other way around?

I think I was concerned about pushing 800w in 12v from the solar controller. I know it'll never actually get there so I went with 60amps, so you think I need to go with 4awg?

I'll take a deeper look tomorrow since the ATS should handle the job without the return.

For the 4AWG cable from the PD Charger to the pos distribution center you just need a 60A fuse like an ANL fuse or a Mega Fuse. I prefer the Mega fuses. The advantage of a circuit breaker is that you can easily disconnect that circuit with the switch. I don't see a need for that.

If you are asking about the battery cut-off switch and fuse combo, I would recommend the "Blue Sea" battery disconnect switch. There are cheaper switches but you really don't want cheap for that switch.
https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...43&sr=8-6&th=1

That is a simple "ON/OFF" switch. It is not fused. You will want a 350A Mega fuse between the battery switch and the pos distribution center (busbar).

After you re-do your wiring diagram, we can discuss the rest, so that it doesn't get confusing. It just dawned on me what that 10AWG wire to that "20A" rectangular box is........ duh...... You need a pos & neg 10AWG wire from the respective distribution centers (busbars) to the 12V busbars in your power center. A 40A, inline fuse would be quite adequate. That's what the power center uses now, Just put a connector on one side of the inline fuse (to the busbar) and an inline connector to the long wire to the fuse panel.

Remember..... fuses protect wires. They are not intended to protect devices.