Loosening Trim & Hold Down Latch

Hi All,

Now that I've solved my window leaks (thanks Frenchy!) I've discovered another problem.

The hold down latch on the front shell (forward of the door) had loosened. While tightening it up, I noticed that the aluminum trim which wraps the underside of the upper shell has loosened. All of the screws (both trim & latch) are tight, but the trim will still move up and down by 1/4" or so. You can see the range of movement on the shell paint. (see pics)

Anyone know what should be keeping the trim from moving? What's under there?

Thanks,

Steve

I've been concerned about this same problem. We are about to install the reinforced mod. stirrups on the front shell and were going to reinforce the hollow tube as well for a better anchor. Has anyone experienced this pulling away? How did you repair or better yet, avoid this problem?
Cheri

Steve, the 1" square aluminum tube (that makes up the lower edge of your front shell's wall) has loosened and has been pulled down. If you remove the screws that attach the trim to the tube and take off the trim, you will see that the bottom of the square tube is below the lower edge of the exterior aluminum panel of the wall. When it was new the lower edge of the tube was aligned with the lower edge of the panel - i.e., you could not see any part of the side of the 1" square tube. The TM factory applied adhesive between the sides of the tubes and the inner surfaces of the panels (exterior and interior) and drove a few screws into the tube from the inside of the wall. These screws attach the plastic or wood strips inside the bag seals in place. They are long enough to penetrate into the tubes, however, and therefore do help to hold the tubes in place. It is my opinion that the adhesive and screws on the inside provide insufficent holding power at the attachment points of the stirrups. Our trailers bounce up and down as we travel the highways. As they bounce, the shells also attempt to move up and down. The shells' motion is restricted mainly by the holdown latches and, therefore, a great deal of stress is applied to the latches. The stirrups are the weakest parts of the latches. Since their attachment screws are driven into tubes with wall thicknesses of about 0.035", the screws frequently pull out. If the screws hold, sometimes the tubes will be pulled down.

This was what occurred in my 1999 3124KS. In an earlier thread I described the repair method that I used for my upper shell: installing a thick wall aluminum tube in place of the stock, thin wall tube. The new tube is held by Cherry Q pop rivets driven into it from both the inner and outer panels. This thread can be found at:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...read.php?t=537

Larry,

I am wondering if it would be a good idea to do this mod to a TM before it rips the square tubing out? It would be a lot easier then since the glue bond and the inner screws are still intact. I am thinking to put the pop rivets in the outer skin. Maybe do the factory mod and put in the little bars that spread the stirrup stress to a couple of more screws.

What do you think?

Larry,

Thanks for the lead to your excellent project description thread. I couldn't find much when searching the archives since I didn't know to call 'em "stirrup". I be much educated now!

I'm not especially looking forward to the repair, and am a bit disappointed that a unit with a relatively high MSRP has these sorts of problems. (I discovered why my side A/C always leaked water during travel - factory didn't put any drain in the bottom of the unit, so water just sloshed around...).

I really like the TM concept - but I think with TM's, probably like most RV's, you are fighting a losing battle with time. They can't afford to build a unit with Toyota or Honda-like durability - or more accurately, we can't afford to buy it. Their development and materials costs are spread over a far smaller production volume, so economies of scale are never achieved.

Sorry for the rant - I guess I've just been spending too much time lately fixing various issues that are design or assembly related. I'll get over it. :^)

Thanks again, Larry. It sure helps to not have to reinvent the wheel here. Unfortunately I may have to wait 'till spring to do the work, as winter fast approacheth.

Steve

Originally Posted by BobRederick

Larry,

I am wondering if it would be a good idea to do this mod to a TM before it rips the square tubing out? It would be a lot easier then since the glue bond and the inner screws are still intact. I am thinking to put the pop rivets in the outer skin. Maybe do the factory mod and put in the little bars that spread the stirrup stress to a couple of more screws.

What do you think?

Bob, I am of the opinion that the attachment screws for the upper shell's stirrups are stressed much more than those of the lower shell. That is because the upper shell bears down on the lower shell, and, this may take some of the tension off the screws of the lower shell's stirrups. I think that putting some pop rivets into the stock tube from the outside wall may help. I'm not totally confident, though, that this will eliminate the need for a more permanent repair in the future, especially with the front shell. I did pop some Cherry Q rivets (solid mandrel rivets) into the stock, thin wall tube from the outside around the stirrups' locations of my lower shell. You may recall that in my upper shell I replaced the stock 1" tube with a heavy wall tube (1/8" thickness) and inserted into the tube a 6" long square plug at the location of the stirrups. This essentially created a solid 1" square aluminum bar into which the stirrup's screws were threaded. I then drove CherryQ rivets into the tube from both inside and outside. It was a time consuming repair which I would not look forward to repeating.

Larry
I do remember all the work you did on your TM at the stirrups which is why I was asking if a little preventive maintenance might save me from that same agony. If only the upper shell is involved that makes it even easier. On my upper, one clamp is on the roof of my 3326 (door side) and one down at the bottom of the shell. The top one seems to just be in the aluminum skin and the skin flexes as the top shell moves. The latch has a deep groove worn into it from the stirrup, so this one is going to need maintenance in not too distant future. The curb side one would get cherry Q rivets and the spanner bars to distribute the stress over a couple of more tubing screws.

Originally Posted by BobRederick

. . . If only the upper shell is involved that makes it even easier. On my upper, one clamp is on the roof of my 3326 (door side) and one down at the bottom of the shell. The top one seems to just be in the aluminum skin and the skin flexes as the top shell moves. The latch has a deep groove worn into it from the stirrup, so this one is going to need maintenance in not too distant future. . .

Bob, what are you referring to by the word "Clamp on the roof?" Popping some CherryQ rivets into the stock tube from the outside may help to prevent the tube from being pulled loose (downward) from the inner and outer panels. That repair won't, however, remedy the inherent weakness of the stirrup attachment method: attachment screws driven into very thin-walled tubing. Using a steel bar on the inside of the 1" tubes to spread the tensile stresses over a greater area of the tubes may be sufficient to keep the tubes from being loosened. Only time will tell if these repairs will provide a permanent solution.

It looks like we have this same problem with the upper shell on our 1988 Trailmanor 26. Under tension, the molding at the stirrup pulls down half an inch or so below the bottom edge of the upper shell on one side of our trailer and a bit less on the other side. The lower shell stirrups seem to be holding fast which matches other peoples experience.

I also need to adjust the torsion bars on our trailer but want to get the stirrup problem addressed first so the increased lift from properly adjusted torsion bars doesn't make things worse. Does anyone know if TrailManor used the square tubing in the walls of older (as in 1988) trailers?
Thanks,

Originally Posted by heyokasni

. . . Does anyone know if TrailManor used the square tubing in the walls of older (as in 1988) trailers?
Thanks,

I don't know if the TM Factory inserted square aluminum tubing in all 1988 trailers, but, they put it in yours. You can see the sheen of the aluminum tubing in your first photo. It's between the decorative molding and the lower edge of the outer wall. The square tubing was loosened from the inner and outer skins and has been pulled down by the stirrup. If you remove the stirrup and molding, you may discover that the tubing is also cracked at the stirrup's attachment point. Sorry about that!