Shell Latch Mod / Entry Door Alignment / Slideout

[Denny_A]

We finished a 2800 mi RT from WI to FL and back. Stopped in Lake City for some TLC on the home run segment. Sights along the way; Benton, IL Travl Park, Bay Springs, MS (daughter's back yard), Blue Angels RV Park, Pensacola FL (on Perdido Bay), Volunteer RV Park (9 mi S of Lake City, Tn), Hillsboro, IN and finally, home!

Shell Latch Mod: If you recall (a few months back) I had probs with the forward shell bracket pulling loose. Discovered 9 drilled holes, 4 of which had merged into infinity symbols. My fix was to drill out the merged holes and use Rivet Nuts. That worked for a while. But after 1500 miles the threads started stripping due to the jostling effects of Wisconsin, Mississippi and Alabama interstates. After drilling out and replacing 2 Rivet Nuts, I decided to see what TM could do.

The factory has a mod which I recommend for anyone who is having problems (Larry Loo - listen up). The mod includes a strip of metal (strap) which is about 2 1/2 times as long as the latch bracket is wide. The latch bracket is in contact with the shell and the strap overlaps the bracket. No screws are used in the bracket itself. The strap is secured on each end with 2 lag-type sheet-metal screws. The mod seems to correct the weakness of the current design. Donny Pilke moded both of my forward shell brackets in about 1 hour.

I am sure that anyone wishing to modify their current setup can order the straps; from TM for a pittance, or just as easily make their own. The straps from TM are pre-drilled for proper screw positioning.

Entry Door: My lower door has ALWAYS gapped from the upper door when being opened. I did not know this gapping was an abberation. Donny recognized the problem when installing the latch mod. The cure for such misalignment resides in the traingular wood piece which is attached to the floor and the vertical portion of the body at the door hinge. He adjusted the screws(?) which secured the wood triangle to the floor. I was not able to discover the exact adjustment he made, but the lower and upper doors now swing through identical arcs and disengagement is no longer a problem. Maybe I'm the only one who's ever had this problem, but...........

Slideout: When the slideout is open, stepping on the center of the floor segment causes a good deal of flex. When questioned about this, in terms of rate of failure, Donny said, it's never happened - as far as he's aware.

I showed him what I'd done to cure (diminish) the flexing. Outside, along the centerline, on the floor, just behind the white flex seal, I installed a support. I cut out a 2.5inch x 2inch segment of carpet. Attached a 2.5inch x 2inch x 1inch block of wood + lucite (sandwich, lucite on top) to the deck with a couple of screws. When the slideout is pulled out, the block is positioned just behind the forward most part of the floor, and 1/4inch below it. When stepping on the floor it flexes 1/4inch and is supported. Prior to the mod the floor would flex up to 1 1/4inch, giving the impression of impending failure.

Now that I have nearly 10,000 miles on my TM, my conclusion is that --- It works for me!

Factory support is awesome. I also had a face-to-face with Jimmy Davis. My mental image of him was (first time ever) almost exactly that of the actual 3D JD! A truly nice man.


Denny_A

DenTed,

I am listening up, or rather, reading your interesting commentary. I believe that I understand your description of the TM Factory's fix for the problem of the latching bracket's screws pulling out: they install a steel strap that is placed underneath the existing upper bracket (that holds the latch pin) and secure both strap and bracket with 4 sheet metal screws. The strap must have 2 short pins that fit into the existing slots of the bracket so that the bracket will be fixed in place.

If this is correct, then it is almost like the fix that I used last year on the driver's side of my upper shell when that bracket pulled out. The strap that I fabricated, however, was a short one and only extended to one side of the bracket. It depended on using one existing screw (that was still holding) and a new one in the end of the strap. The strap also contained a short, welded pin that fitted in the other slot so that the bracket was fixed in place.

It's my opinion, however, that the Factory's modification still has its inherent weakness. That is, the screws, whether sheet metal or machine screws, are driven into a wall that is only 1/16" thick. The 1" square tube that makes up the bottom edges of both upper and lower shells has a wall thickness of 1/16". Conventional machine thread teaching tells us that there must be at least 3 machined threads in a part into which the screw is threaded. In a 10-32 screw the pitch of the threads is 0.03125". In a 1/4"-28 screw the pitch is 0.03571". In lay terms the "pitch" of a screw is the distance the screw advances for every single revolution. It is also the dimension between two adjacent ridges of the threaded portion of the screw. If a 10-32 screw were used to fasten the bracket to the 1/16" (0.0625&quot thick aluminum wall, the hole into which the screw was inserted would contain only 2 threads. This might be sufficiently strong for a lightly stressed application. The latching brackets, as we all know, have to exert a considerable amount of force to hold a shell down. This resistive force must increase when the trailers are bouncing up and down on the roads while being towed; because the brackets must resist the momentum of the shells caused by this up and down motion. Sheet metal screws are coarse threaded. They were never intended for high strength applications such as holding latching brackets in place. They were, as their name implies, intended to hold sheet metal parts together. I believe that the Factory's modification eventually may fail in some of the trailers in which it's used.

Visualizing the Factory's mod as best as I can, I am still convinced that I can do a stronger modification by the method that I've planned. That method consists of replacing about 36" of the existing tubing (mine is also cracked at one screw hole) with a 36" length of 1" square aluminum tube with a 1/8" thick wall. At the part where I intend to drill and tap the screw holes for the bracket, I will slide a short length of 3/4" square aluminum bar into the tube. I will then weld the square bar to the tube using rosette welds. This will result in the bracket's screws essentially being threaded into a solid, 1" square bar. I will also reinsert the screws driven into the tube from the inside (fastening the tube to the inner sheet). I will also fasten the tube to the outer aluminum sheet with solid, Q-type pop rivets and machine screws (at the location where the tube contains the square bar). For those who are technically minded, I will use alloy 6063 square tubing and alloy 6061 square bar. These are both easily joined by TIG welding - first abrading off the anodizing if they are finished in this way. I've located a source for both materials, will order them soon and will do the repair in the coming month. Hey, I can't keep my TM mothballed too long. Winter will soon pass and it will be Spring again!

I couldn't visualize exactly what you did to take the flexing out of your slideout's floor. My slideout's floor also flexes and it annoys me a little every time I step on that part of the trailer.  ??? ???

I'll let you all know how my bracket's modification works out after I complete it. Theoretically, it should work out, but, sometimes snags do occur - such as aluminum misbehaving when it's welded.

Guys, those of us reading this thread would very much appreciate some pics of the latch mods you speak of. This is assuming there is room for additional pics here. I would even encourage the removing of some of the older pics so that space can be made for newer ones. Even those of us with new TMs I'm afraid may one day need to apply this mod and it's great to learn from what you guys have put to the test. This is what makes groups like this so valuable.

Wade

I'm with Wade.  Any pics would help us prepare ourselves to keep our units working smoothly.  Thanks.

DenTed stated: The factory has a mod which I recommend for anyone who is having problems (Larry Loo - listen up). The mod includes a strip of metal (strap) which is about 2 1/2 times as long as the latch bracket is wide. The latch bracket is in contact with the shell and the "strap" overlaps the bracket. No screws are used in the bracket itself. The "strap" is secured on each end with 2 lag-type sheet-metal screws. The mod seems to correct the weakness of the current design. Donny Pilke moded both of my forward shell brackets in about 1 hour.
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I just got back from taking a preview look at our new 3023, which we will pick up on Mon 11/4. It came from the factory with the mod described above (sorry, unsure how to reduce the text size for DenTed's quote). Also, general fit and finish of the unit appears very good, better than our previous '02 2720SL model. The 40 gal fresh water tank is big! Still some room under the long couch for storage. Dual chair option looks great (first time to see this in person). I think we'll be happy with this arrangement (better be :P). Dealer is going to install 2 six volt batteries instead of 1 12 volt, for greater amp/hr rating. Haven't decided on WD hitch and/or sway option yet.

Wade

[Denny_A]

DenTed,

I am listening up, or rather, reading your interesting commentary. I believe that I understand your description of the TM Factory's fix for the problem of the latching bracket's screws pulling out: they install a steel strap that is placed underneath the existing upper bracket
---------------snip-----------------

It's my opinion, however, that the Factory's modification still has its inherent weakness. That is, the screws, whether sheet metal or machine screws, are driven into a wall that is only 1/16" thick. The 1inch square tube that makes up the bottom edges of both upper and lower shells has a wall thickness of 1/16inch. Conventional machine thread teaching tells us that there must be at least 3 machined threads in a part into which the screw is threaded. In a 10-32 screw the pitch of the threads is 0.03125inch. In a 1/4-28 screw the pitch is 0.03571inch. In lay terms the pitch of a screw is the distance the screw advances for every single revolution.
---------------snip------------------

Visualizing the Factory's mod as best as I can, I am still convinced that I can do a stronger modification by the method that I've planned.
-------------------snip---------------------

Clarification mode (maybe): If the original bracket screws are removed, but the bracket stays put, the strap, when installed,  straddles (covers) the bracket and is the width of the bracket "between" the downward oriented tabs. There are 2 holes at each end of the strap, side-by side!

When secured, the strap "bridges" the bracket. The slight bend, caused by the bracket thickness and the force of the secured screws at each end, prevents the bracket from moving fore or aft.

I pulled one of the screws out and measured 28 threads in 2 inches. So it's a 1/4-14 self-tapping sheet metal screw with a pitch of .0715. IOW, 87% of one thread passes thru a 1/16" thick piece of aluminum, and does the same  across to the other side of the tube    .

I am, likewise, convinced that you can do a stronger mod.

Cheers,

Denny_A

[Denny_A]

DenTed,

------snip--------------

I couldn't visualize exactly what you did to take the flexing out of your slideout's floor. My slideout's floor also flexes and it annoys me a little every time I step on that part of the trailer. ??? ???

Clarify mode on (maybe, again)!

When the slideout is in the out position, the black rubber seal, at the floor of the slideout, is about 4inches from the front of the trailer's white fluffy seal (outside).

The floor of the slideout is about 1 1/4inch above the floor of the trailer. So, when stepping on the slideout floor, near the black rubber seal, along the centerline, the floor flexes downward as much as 1 1/4inch.

Outside the trailer, with the slideout retracted, I cut out a 2.5inch x 2inch segment of carpet, on the trailer centerline, just where it meets the white fluffy seal. Then installed the 2.5inch x 2inch x 1inch thick block with a couple of wood screws. When the slideout is pulled out, the floor of the slideout, at the centerline, sits 1/4inch above the support block. Result - minimum flex, and the sense of mushiness is gone. Advantage - simple to mod.

Denny_A

[Denny_A]

Guys, those of us reading this thread would very much appreciate some pics of the latch mods you speak of. This is assuming there is room for additional pics here. I would even encourage the removing of some of the older pics so that space can be made for newer ones. Even those of us with new TMs I'm afraid may one day need to apply this mod and it's great to learn from what you guys have put to the test. This is what makes groups like this so valuable.  

Wade

I've tried several times to post pics since going to the "improved" YABBC. No luck. Anything acceptable (# of bits) was rendered unacceptable due to excessive pixelation. A picture is worth a........lot. See other posts of my attempts to clarifiy.

I once took a class which required folding paper into a painter's cup. The instructions were verbal. Of 10 in the class, only 1 person did it correctly. He was a painter - the cheat! Object: demonstrate the inadequacy of visualization based on verbal description.

Denny_A

Denny_A,

Now I have the best possible visual aid for the latch mod because yesterday I went to see our new TM and it has this exact mod installed from the factory on the front latches only. I may not be a "painter" but you can call me the "TM cheat". Kind of an expensive way to see the mod though (buying a TM).  ;D ;D

Wade

DenTed,

Thanks for the added explanation on your modification to take the flexing out of your slideout. I'm going to take your instructions out with me to my TM later this morning when it warms up a little - we thin-blooded Californians can't tolerate freezing weather when it drops down to 45 degrees!

I too have tried to post pictures of my repairs on this board, and, after many tries and much frustration, gave up. Maybe Happytrails or Oilspot will allow me to post some pictures of my latch modification on one of their sites. I wouldn't want to post any, however, until after I've finished it and have proven that it works.