So confused!!

[tucsoncarol]

OK, let's see if I can get this straight. The TM comes with an inverter, and that turns shore power into 12v. A converter does the opposite. If I install a converter with a battery charger I can remove the inverter. Is that right? Every time I think I've gotten it, I look at the converter descriptions and I'm confused again. I would like to go solar, and run some stuff that isn't 12v. If I do that I'll need a converter(?), right?

Actually, I think you're mixing up inverter and converter. The TM comes with a CONverter. The CONverter Converts AC to DC (120 V Alternating Current to 12 V Direct Current.) The Inverter takes 12 V DC and simulates 120 V AC. It isn't true AC, (Usually sine wave) but most small appliances see it as AC and work as if it were actually AC.

[tucsoncarol]

Thank you, Jim, I knew it was one or the other. After my post I was thinking I would have to take the answer and tattoo it on my forearm like crib notes in school. I look at the ads on Camping World's site and all they talk about is running your small appliances. Well, I have some of each, so...

I might add that the cheap inverters simulate AC. Some of the better generators actually create DC and have a very good inverter that does very clean AC. I also work for the electric company in town. Our dispatch center and call center can not go down during storms when lights out calls come in. Almost the entire building is run on a HUGE inverter that is feed from a couple large battery plants that in turn are feed off DC battery chargers that can use either the normal AC line power or a big generator.

[wbmiller3]

Off topic, but this made me think of when I was in college and our large wind tunnel (built long ago) had an AC motor, running a DC generator, which powered the large DC fan motor.

Fun with conversions.

[tucsoncarol]

Now that I have the inverter/converter info drawn on my wrist (I'm too chicken to get it tattooed), let's go to the second part of my confusion. If I install an inverter with a battery charger do I remove the converter? When installing solar panels do I have to do this, want to do this, what?

Well I am not sure I would put an inverter in the trailer unless you only want to power something small like a radio or TV. A microwave, coffee pot, and etc. are out of the question unless you want to buy tons of batteries. Inverters are not real efficient. If you want to power a device that pulls 1100 watts like a microwave, the inverter will need to pull around 1600 to 1900 watts to supply that load. That means you would need 120 to 150 amps. It is going to take quite a few batteries to supply that much current.

The battery plants at work are 48 VDC instead of 12 VDC. They are not a battery like a 6 or 12 VDC. They are composed of single 1.5 VDC cells. A single cell is around 2 foot wide, 3 foot deep and about 4 feet tall. We have 3 of these 48 VDC strings to supply the 48 VDC to the building inverter.

They do make some nice inverters for cars/trucks, but they will only supply the load with the engine running. We have them on our line trucks for their power tools. It is actually the alternator and not the battery supplying power to the inverter. In fact the inverters have a built in protection circuit that will not let them work unless the engine is running.

As to the solar power question, yes there are systems the do include inverters. Solar panels supply a steady output. You have to have a charge controller to make sure you do not over charge the battery. The inverter relies on the batteries to supply any additional current/power the solar panels can not. These systems are good for a TV or radio, but not a microwave or A/C. I would only remove the converter the trailer has if the system you are buying will charge the batteries from both the solar panels and 120 VAC. You also only want one of the system charging the batteries at a time.

In addition to charging the battery, the converter usually performs your breaker/fuse panel function and runs the 12v systems independently of the battery when shore power is present, so its probably best to keep it.

The inverters with battery chargers you're probably thinking of (and certainly those that might have the house breaker/fuse panel function built in) are I believe more suited to class A motor homes with lots of battery power available and lots of AC devices to run without shore power present.
When boondocking, even with solar power back-up, your capacity to run high power AC devices such as a microwave is virtually nil, so you probably want to stick to a small inverter without a battery charger so you can just run some low power AC devices (e.g. TV, laptop, etc.)
Just to confuse you even more, a solar kit usually comes with a charge controller (Arghh, how many battery chargers do I need?!!). This merely conditions the "raw" power from the solar panel so it is suitable for battery charging.

-Paul

You have to have a charge controller to make sure you do not over charge the battery. The inverter relies on the batteries to supply any additional current/power the solar panels can not.

As Doug said - Don't remove the converter unless the charge controller also has the capability to run off shore power. I might add that the converter in the TM also incorporates all the fuses and breakers for the TM. Simply removing the converter opens a whole new can of worms, so to speak, since now the systems have no circuit protection. I'm pretty sure (more like absolutely sure) that those who have added solar power have not removed the converter. How would you run the air conditioning, microwave, hair dryer, etc.? All those larger appliances draw more than the small batteries on the TM can provide and solar takes a long time to recharge those batteries even in direct sunlight in Arizona in the summertime!

Carol,

I scratched my head on this issue a long time as well. My conclusions and reasons follow. It may help you decide.

First, I want a microwave and a vacuum cleaner. I also have lots of electrical toys to play with (shaver, model planes, palm pilot, drill motor for the jacks, cell phone, and now a new laptop). And of course, the furnace.

I am currently in Flagstaff, 180 miles from home at the end of a 4 week vacation and 4000 miles with the TM in tow. I am very happy with my implemented solution.

My solution was to purchase a Honda eu2000i generator. It is light enough for me to lift while full of fuel. It runs a loooong time on about 1/2 gal. It powers my microwave and all the toys. It also does the laptop . As mentioned above, my inverters seem to not turn on unless the battery is being charged. My older inverters did power the laptop and other smaller toys with the generator off.

I did two other things.
A) I replaced the wimpy converter that came with my '02 and put in a PD 9600 solid state converter. It does a much better job of quick charging my TM battery without overcharging it or bubbling the water out.
B) I installed a battery meter, the Xantrex Link 10. Now I can see the state of charge remaining in my battery.

With this combo, I am charging my battery while making breakfast. The microwave is ready when I am. After breakfast, the geney can be turned off. One tank of gas will do maybe 2 campout weekends easily.

My wife (now deceased) could not tolerate cold and I was very anal about making sure the furnace would run all night. We mostly dry camped.

I really liked the way the power worked on my TM this summer. My battery is really about shot. I think it only has about 50 Amp Hours of capacity where new it was 105. But I got by very well, just knowing what was remaining helped me determine what to do.

By the way, I decided against solar as I love to camp in shady places. (I'm the guy under the tree over there...) That really cuts the output of solar, so keep that in mind. I also believe that sufficient solar panels to charge my battery would cost as much as the Honda. Some day, the cost factor will change and I may very well add solar then.

I hope this helps.