condensation

as i prepare for another weekly tm venture, it seems to be the time of year that condensation becomes a problem in my tm, as well i am sure as in others. while at north and south padre island in january and february we experienced bad condensation and last weekend in kansas condensation again descended upon the inside of the tm.

i use one or two honda eu2000i's when needed so power is not a problem. i am wondering if anyone has utilized any of the electrical dehumidifiers that are on the market such as happy's air dryr in camping world. supposedly they do not draw that much current and if anyone has had any experience with them solving, or reducing the amount of condensation buildup i would greatly appreciate your input. i used two of the chemical type tubs and they do capture some moisture but i think it would take a lot of them to solve this problem.

dennis

[Bill]

Dennis -

The Happy's Air Dryer is not going to do you any good. This is a terribly deceptive ad for a terribly deceptive product. Camping World has a number of products like this, and it disturbs me every time I check their catalog. I buy much less from Camping World than I could - they have a giant store near me - because I HATE being ripped off by stuff like this.
The Happy's Air Dryer does NOT remove any water from the air. It is nothing but a small heater. You could accomplish the same thing with your furnace or your small electric heater - or a pair of 60-watt light bulbs.

WHY CONDENSATION HAPPENS - FEEL FREE TO SKIP THIS
Condensation happens because warm air can hold more water than cool air can hold.

As an example, suppose you have a roomful of warm air, maybe 75 degrees. At that temperature, the roomful of air can hold a certain amount of water (in the form of water vapor), but no more. For the sake of example, let's say that a roomful of warm air is able to hold 1 quart of water. This is the MAXIMUM it can hold - it can actually have less, of course.
So now let's say that at some given moment, your roomful of air doesn't actually have a quart of water in it - it has only half a quart of water. This means that the relative humidity in the room is 50%, and you feel fairly dry. Feels pretty good, doesn't it?
But now, let the temperature in the room drop a bit - say, 10 degrees. You haven't added any more water to the air - there is still half a quart. But at this cooler temperature, the air can't hold as much water. Let's say that at 65 degrees, the same roomful of air can hold only half a quart of water. Since the air still holds the original half quart, the relative humidity is now 100%, and it feels really clammy.
Now, drop the temperature a little bit more, maybe to 60 degrees. Uh oh! You still have the original half quart (16 ounces) of water in the air, but at 60 degrees, the air can no longer hold 16 ounces - it can only hold 12 ounces. What happens? The other 4 ounces of water condenses into liquid water - condensation! It should now be apparent why condensation happens on cold surfaces.

CONCLUSION:
So, getting back to the original thought, how does one prevent condensation? And especially, how do you prevent condensation when the amount of water is constantly increasing because people are breathing, cooking, etc?

One way - warm up the air, so it can hold more water. That is what the Happy's Air Dryer does. It is a cheap heater. But you can keep warming the air for only just so long. When the temp passes 80, or 90, or wherever your threshold of comfort is, you'll get tired of this solution.

The real way? Get rid of some of the airborne water, so it doesn't condense even when the temperature drops. Two ways to do this.

1. Let the wet air out of the TM, and bring in dry air to replace it. In other words, crack a vent. If the new air you bring in is cool and dry, you may have to heat it with your furnace, but you'll eliminate condensation. Of course if you are in Florida in the summer, and are bringing in air that is already 95 degrees and 100 percent humidity, you are not going to gain on the situation.

2. Run a dehumidifier. It will suck the water out of the air. The chemical tubs are true dehumidifiers - they actually suck water out of the air. But as you note, you need a lot of them. Electric dehumidifiers are kind of heavy and use a lot of electricity. (A dehumidifier is basically an air conditioner in disguise.) You can buy a dehumidifier at any store like WalMart for a $150 or so. Or you can buy one from Camping World (DryAir Dehumidifier) for $350 or so.

I vote for cracking a vent.

There is no magic solution. As the saying goes, if you find one that is "too good to be true", then it is.

HTH

Bill

I agree with Bill on simply cracking the vent or opening a window or two just a little. Seems like even making coffee will fog up the windows if the conditions are right (or wrong, depending on your view of the problem )

Guess that the problem stems from proper sealing of the TM :-\.

ColoradoCop 8)

hal and colorado cop

appreciate your response, especially you hal. this past weekend i did in fact crack a vent during the night and daytime and while the first night we did have some condensation the rest of the nights were dry after keeping the windows cracked and the vent. your explanation was well done and again appreciated.

thanks

dennis

I agree with CC in that the units are pretty good at keeping air out (except the seal near our rear bed -- brrr!). We've often had condensation, and while not fun, it is somewhat reassuring to know that we're keeping lots of the right temperature in the trailer.

On my way home from work today, a car pulled out in front of me from their driveway. While following them a little ways, I noticed a lot of water coming outta the tailpipe, and once again wondered why/ where is this water coming from?!? (Something I've always been kinda curious about). Then I remembered Bill's post on condensation, and it all made sense! Lol, another one of life's little mysteries answered finally...... (Also answered what "Dewpoint" means). Thanks Bill!!!!


[glow=red,2,300]Happytrails..........[/glow]

Happy:

Either that, or it's one of those new fuel cell cars running on water -- then I guess that would make it a fuel leak.

Ed

I was looking at electric dehumidifiers that would be small enough for our new 3023. I did a search on MSN home page putting in "dehumidifier" and one of the results was for a dehumidifier on amazon that was 12.5 inches high by 6.5 wide by 6.5 deep it was $59.99 so I bought it. It came in the mail last week and I plugged it in my bedroom and it seemed to work pretty good. This may not be the best solution but at least it wont take up as much room in the TM as a regular dehumidifier.

[Bill]

Is this the Windchaser? I'll be interested in the results in the TM.

Bill

[Carol]

Hi!

The problem is most noticeable on the windows, the thinner wall areas (at perimeter of the bed), above the wheel wells and on the velcro flaps - anywhere where the insulation is lacking (we found an obvious spot on one wall where the insulation must have a small area missing). Has anyone done anything to increase the insulation in these areas?

It would be great if TrailManor could put thermopane windows in these units and put a better insulation in the thin wall and velcro areas and put some insulation above the wheel wells. This would also help with heat gain in hot weather and make the air conditioner run less.

When camping with low temperatures (low 20's at night and highs in the 30's), we had considerable condensation even though we were running 2 small electric heaters and an oscillating fan to move the air around. The walls, ceiling and floor did not have condensation, which attests to the fact that there is adequate insulation in those locations. We had to wipe the windows, bed perimeter and velcro areas down every morning using a number of towels. We also had to move the bedding from the walls to dry out during the day. We did put a rolled up sleeping bag at the far end of the bed to help with warmth - that got wet as well where it touched the outside shell area on our 2720SL.

Carol