Tire Tread Separated, Remodeled My Plumbing

[makriegz]

Hi all,

I just purchased a new-to-me 2007 3124 KS. On the drive home, the driver's side tire tread separated on the highway and wiped out all of the plumbing (and indented the underbelly) behind the tire. (Picture attached.) The toilet is also now jiggling about, barely connected to the floor. So, I have a series of questions and issues to resolve here, about (1) the toilet, (2) the black/gray plumbing, (3) the underbelly. Grateful in advance!

(1) The toilet
From my research thus far:
- The Thetford Electra Magic toilet is discontinued. And reviews are mixed about the smells and such.
- The preferred toilet seems to be the Dometic 711 M28 (or it's handmade variant). But it's out of stock everywhere.

Are these the only 2 toilet options?? I've had a cassette toilet before, and I'm not considering that a viable option.


(2) The black/gray plumbing
- Do y'all know where I could find more info/visuals of the plumbing system?
- I wonder if I might be able to buy the parts that broke off, and rig it back together. I suppose I'd need every part starting from the bottom of the toilet: the black drain pipe, and the plumbing/valves that integrate the black and gray lines. Are those plumbing fixtures available for purchase? (Are they standard, or trail manor specific?)
- BONUS: any tips on welding metal bits to protect plumbing and/or other sensitive areas?


(3) The underbelly
- I'm a rookie here. Looks like I could do nothing, or perhaps fill in with some silicone so that water doesn't get up in the exposed... whatever that material is there. Any thoughts or tips?


Thanks very much!

 

[Mr G]

For information on creating protection of your plumbing during a tire blow out see here https://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20191&highlight=plumbing+cage

Also, use the "search" function on this website to find more information on the topics you mentioned.

 

[jagizzi]

All fixable with the difficulty being defined by how much is left of the original pieces. It looks like you will have to fashion something to attach piping to the gray water tank. ABS Glue and bits of ABS shavings should allow you to make this connection again, folks will chime it here that have done it.

The rest is simply putting together the correct pieces and parts to recreate what is lost, all standard ABS parts and RV dump valves.

As far as the underside you can rivet up some aluminum or stainless sheeting with some adhesive sealant around the edges and be good to go.

 

[makriegz]

Thanks so much for the replies, and pics!

I am now pondering if I can install a standard RV toilet (https://www.etrailer.com/RV-Toilets/Dometic/DOM87FR.html) and squeeze in a tiny black tank (https://www.recpro.com/13-gallon-rv-holding-tank-22-x-17-x-11-elkhart-plastics-epi-199h/) in place of the current under-plumbing. And of course, snake in the gray pipe so all the flushing works.

My TM has a 4-5" lift, so... will measure soon and see if I can find a small enough tank.

Am I missing something...? Can't imagine why no one else would've done this already.

Thanks again,

 

[Bill]

The ads for that toilet advertise that it uses 1 pint of water per flush. Whether or not I believe that is a different question, since even the best EPA water-saving household toilets use about 10 pints (1-1/4 gallon) per flush. But the nine gallon tank will hold 72 pints of water - a lot of flushes if you actually get 1 pint per flush.

Finding a place for the tiny tank will be a challenge, and remember that you still have to leave room for the various hose connectors and valves, serving both the gray tank and the new black tank, that you lost in the tire tread incident.

And of course, if you get the tiny tank and the connectors and valves all mounted in that space, you are vulnerable to another tire failure.

I'm not sure I would try it, but I will be eager to hear your story when it is done.

Bill

 

[larsdennert]

The replacements for the 711 M28 that will fit under the folding shower are the following:

https://marinesan.com/5000-m65-series-traveler-gravity-toilet--white-or-bone/
https://marinesan.com/700-m65-series-traveler-gravity-toilet--white-only/

Doesn't look like the tank comes with the 3" bottom discharge so you'd have install a 3" bulkhead of some type instead of using the pump out. At least you can put it where you want.
https://www.amazon.com/TF300-Polypr...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584001431981818&psc=1

 

[makriegz]

Hmm this is all very helpful.

Thanks Bill for your (wise) hesitation about the black tank underneath, and Lars' excellent toilet finds... This 5000-m65 sounds like a good solution also.

I will take some measurements later this week and see what I find out.

I may still go for the black tank underneath. I'd like to build a cage around the plumbing regardless of whether the tank is inside or outside. Plus, the tankless toilet is half the price, the vent on the tank would already be outside (instead of having to drill through my wall), and I think I'd just prefer it to look more like a regular toilet.

Perhaps with this tank (https://www.amazon.com/Icon-22-1-Bo...6-c3e8-4386-bf32-63e904010ad0#customerReviews) mounted underneath, my plumbing could still like nearly the same as the standard install.

Thanks again for weighing in!

(After taking measurements, I'm suppose I'll start looking into tank sensors and a gauge. Yeehaw!)

 

[Wavery]

One option for a black tank is to make your own out of thin plywood skin (19.5"x19.5"x9") and fiberglass it on the inside and out. It's a lot of work. I did mine in place and used the floor (covered with layers of fiberglass) as the tank bottom.

My recommendation would be to build a complete box outside the trailer. Fit the box in place and make sure that it fits lightly snug. Install the drain pipe in the box. Do all of the fiberglassing (inside and out) in an open area. Glass the bottom and sides (inside with 4 layers, outside with 1 layer) first. Then glass the top (made of 1/2" marine plywood) as a separate unit. While the glass is still tacky, lay the top on the box and glass the edges. Allow the assembly to set, then install it.

Because of the toilet that I bought, I had to make the top as a separate panel. I had to install the toilet the the new tank top, then I laid that assembly down last with sealer and screws. The reason that I did that is because it would have been impossible to attach the new toilet to the top with the top in place. (poorly designed Thetford toilet). I recommend buying a toilet that mounts with external screws (like your home toilets) and nuts.

This option takes some careful measuring and experience with fiberglass. I made a 13.5G tank that sits on the floor, under the toilet (much like the Sealand). I've had it out on 3-campouts so far and it works great. It perfect for 5-days with 2-people.

If you are interested in doing this, I can give you more complete instructions. This is just a brief over-view of the procedure.

 

[larsdennert]

I tapped into the water supply in the cabinet with a shark bite as well as the sink vent that leads outside.

 

[makriegz]

Hah... okay yeah... there is far less space behind the tire than it appears in the picture I originally shared. On my 2007 3124 KS, it's 25"L x 13"W x 5"H. That would've translated to a ~7 gal tank... minus the volume needed for a vent on top. And the 90deg turn toward the drain would bring me too low to the ground... I'd rather max my ground clearance, especially right behind the tire.

So instead... I just purchased the Dometic 5000-M65 from Marinesan (https://marinesan.com/5000-m65-series-traveler-gravity-toilet--white-or-bone/).

I'm a super rookie at plumbing, so I'd be grateful for any direction about tapping into this complex system.

@larsdennert, I'm loving your take on shark biting into the water supply. Any additional pics or tips you could include would be much appreciated. Same for the vent out - I wasn't aware that the sink already has a vent out. I found a great diagram of the supply side (https://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21050), but looking under the cabinet it's hard to tell which is which.

I haven't yet found a schematic for the drain side. It sounds like there, I will need to do some research on how to use ABS glue and ABS shavings to re-seal to the gray tank, and then fill in with standard sewer drain parts.

 

[Wavery]

@larsdennert, I'm loving your take on shark biting into the water supply. Any additional pics or tips you could include would be much appreciated. Same for the vent out - I wasn't aware that the sink already has a vent out. I found a great diagram of the supply side (https://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21050), but looking under the cabinet it's hard to tell which is which.

I haven't yet found a schematic for the drain side. It sounds like there, I will need to do some research on how to use ABS glue and ABS shavings to re-seal to the gray tank, and then fill in with standard sewer drain parts.

I don't think that the sink has a "Vent out". That sink itself supplies all the air necessary for venting the drain. I could be wrong but it makes no sense.

The water supply "SharkBite T" is easiest installed in the water supply line going to the kitchen faucet cold water line, under the kitchen sink (where there is adequate room to work) then routed over the top of the water heater, through the bathroom cabinet and exiting next to the toilet. It's a straight shot.

 

[makriegz]

Awesome, thank you!!

 

[Shrimpburrito]

I don't think that the sink has a "Vent out". That sink itself supplies all the air necessary for venting the drain. I could be wrong but it makes no sense.

The kitchen and bathroom sinks are both vented via a common vent to the lower wall, just above and to the left of the water heater (as viewed from under the sink). If you look from the OUTSIDE, you'll see the vent as a white louver a few inches in diameter next to the water heater exhaust.

Dave

 

[makriegz]

Instead of rebuilding the standard double-gated drainage plumbing, I'm considering to simply leave the black and gray drain pipes separate. Any major reason why I should go with the standard?

As I'm seeing it... the standard setup is in the danger zone, behind the wheel. But simple drain pipes could stay higher and further from the tire. The only downside I see to separate pipes would be a yucky sewer pipe transfer. But I'm thinking I could (A) deal with a poopy pipe, ( flush a few extra gallons, or (C) I'm getting a RhinoBlaster Pro, to flush the tanks and sewer hose with a garden hose.

 

[Bill]

Are you talking about separate pipes, each with its own gate? That should be OK. Separate pipes, one or both with no gate? Not such a good idea.

Bill

 

[Shane826]

There was a year or two where TM did away with the combination plumbing and had separate hose attachment points for the toilet and gray tank. So yes, it can be done. Apparently some gubment agency was trying to make it so campers had to dump black in one hole and gray and another. The campgrounds all pretty much said no thanks.

Don’t want a poopy hose transfer? Get a couple short hoses and a Y-adapter. Then you can put the Rhino Blaster on the Y-adapter before the main hose to flush both small hoses and tanks without transferring anything.

2x https://a.co/d/jc6MYEL + https://a.co/d/5nzZ2xR

Or you can rebuild as standard and get yourself a plumbing guard from the factory for ~$150 + shipping.