HEEELLLLLLPPPP!!! ...calling all experts....

[[email protected]]

and I'm glad your batteries are happy....my batteries stay nice and hot due to the charger and my 2 x 100 watt solar panels, but my concern is the converter that has been frying all my LED lights and who knows what else. I am sure the fridge is ok and the water pump and cabin heater hardly ever get turned on. The hot water heater is no concern now that I've gone to a strictly propane one although it does have 12v components to it, but I think they are all in good working order. It's mainly the led's that are all fried and the fact that this little converter I bought to run my wifi booster router would not power up because it was reading too much voltage from the converter (17-19 vdc). This was a curse that is a blessing. So I can't wait to get my new converter/charger/pendant installed. I know my TM will feel a lot better!
Tom

[Skyjim73]

I'll look forward to hearing what you think, Tom.

Best,
Jim

[[email protected]]

I just finished installing the new Progressive Dynamics PD 4546 converter. I learned a lot about the way the 12 volt system works on the TM. It was pretty easy to do and didn't take too much time (2.5 hours some of which was retrieving tools). It came with a new distribution board for the 12 volt fuses and it even had 3 extra 12 volt fuse slots in it in case one would like to install more circuits. Best of all...it's new, with newer technology and a much better 3 stage battery charger. Also it's about 10lbs. lighter than the burned out one. So if you ever see that your led lights are flickering while plugged into shore power, chances are your converter is bad or headed that way. That was the first clue that mine had gone round the bend! The second clue was when the new little inverter I had just bought wouldn't power up because it has an over voltage protection circuit that wouldn't let it fry itself. So with the converter issue resolved, the inverter issue was solved as well. Now my wifi antenna and router are working like they should. The reverse domino affect. Plus my TM isn't going to burn down either.
Tom

[Bill]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

my concern is the converter that has been frying all my LED lights and who knows what else. <snip> It's mainly the led's that are all fried and the fact that this little converter I bought to run my wifi booster router would not power up because it was reading too much voltage from the converter (17-19 vdc).

Tom -

Glad you got the new converter. The old one isn't burning up - it is just doing what it was designed to do. Problem is that back when it was designed, there was very little electronic stuff in a TM, and voltage regulation for the loads in the TM wasn't really important. Then came the common availability of LEDs, and suddenly everyone who installed LEDs was having trouble. That's how we here on the forum discovered and identified the problem.

Though not many of us have the old 6300-series converter any more, some of the engineers on the group might like to know the underlying cause. In the first pic below, I have posted the schematic diagram for the 6300. It is not a complicated beast, but is a bit obscure. In the second pic, I have posted a simplified version of the schematic, and it becomes clearer.

As I mentioned in post #6 above, the 6300 converter has two 12-volt output points, marked Red and Blue on the diagrams. Red is connected to the battery. Blue is connected to most of the 12-volt loads in the trailer, including the lights. When shore power is NOT available, a relay connects the two 12-volt out points together, and everything runs from the battery. This is good. But when shore IS available, the relay separates the two output points. The charger section of the converter charges the battery. But at the other output, the raw output from the "muscle" of the converter, a simple full-wave-rectified sine wave, drives the loads. Why is this separation of outputs done? Because the charger section can generate only 5 Amps of charge current, and all of this current is needed just to get a bit of charge into the battery. The problem is that on the other output, a rectified 12-volt sine wave has a peak value of about 19 volts, just as you discovered. Because the peaks are short duration, conventional light bulbs can handle them - but LEDs cannot.

Now you know more than you wanted to know. Aren't you excited? More to the point, anyone who has an older trailer with a 6300 converter should be careful with LEDs, and with newer electronic devices like your inverter.

Bill

[Padgett]

Makes me glad I have a WFO with the batteries always in the circuit. That transformer and diodes (not even a bridge) and no big caps or inductors would be more a pulsed DC than pure.

Electrically, a battery is a very big inductor that helps filter a "noisy" input. An alternator at least has a full wave bridge (four diodes) and a big filter (the battery). Sounds like the 6300 has neither.

This is why if I were to replace mine, I'd keep the fuse panel but add the Xantrex HF1800to replace the "converter" with a charger (battery type selectable)/inverter/GFCI/millisecond transfer switch. It also has a remotable display.

"The Freedom HF Inverter/Charger features modified sine wave output and is designed to operate entertainment systems and small appliances ..."

All points to consider when replacing the original system.

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Padgett

Makes me glad I have a WFO with the batteries always in the circuit. That transformer and diodes (not even a bridge) and no big caps or inductors would be more a pulsed DC than pure.

Electrically, a battery is a very big inductor that helps filter a "noisy" input. An alternator at least has a full wave bridge (four diodes) and a big filter (the battery). Sounds like the 6300 has neither.

This is why if I were to replace mine, I'd keep the fuse panel but add the Xantrex HF1800to replace the "converter" with a charger (battery type selectable)/inverter/GFCI/millisecond transfer switch. It also has a remotable display.

"The Freedom HF Inverter/Charger features modified sine wave output and is designed to operate entertainment systems and small appliances ..."

All points to consider when replacing the original system.

one consideration is the continence of the replacement and how easy it is to install for idiots like me. Plus I didn't want to have to do a bunch of customizing just to get something else in there. The PD 4645 is made to fit the original space and has newer and mo betta guts than the old 6300 that is now toast. Even better ...it was about $300 less than what you are talking about......I think I'll take that $300 and go get some groceries!
Tom

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Bill

Tom -

Glad you got the new converter. The old one isn't burning up - it is just doing what it was designed to do. Problem is that back when it was designed, there was very little electronic stuff in a TM, and voltage regulation for the loads in the TM wasn't really important. Then came the common availability of LEDs, and suddenly everyone who installed LEDs was having trouble. That's how we here on the forum discovered and identified the problem.

Though not many of us have the old 6300-series converter any more, some of the engineers on the group might like to know the underlying cause. In the first pic below, I have posted the schematic diagram for the 6300. It is not a complicated beast, but is a bit obscure. In the second pic, I have posted a simplified version of the schematic, and it becomes clearer.

As I mentioned in post #6 above, the 6300 converter has two 12-volt output points, marked Red and Blue on the diagrams. Red is connected to the battery. Blue is connected to most of the 12-volt loads in the trailer, including the lights. When shore power is NOT available, a relay connects the two 12-volt out points together, and everything runs from the battery. This is good. But when shore IS available, the relay separates the two output points. The charger section of the converter charges the battery. But at the other output, the raw output from the "muscle" of the converter, a simple full-wave-rectified sine wave, drives the loads. Why is this separation of outputs done? Because the charger section can generate only 5 Amps of charge current, and all of this current is needed just to get a bit of charge into the battery. The problem is that on the other output, a rectified 12-volt sine wave has a peak value of about 19 volts, just as you discovered. Because the peaks are short duration, conventional light bulbs can handle them - but LEDs cannot.

Now you know more than you wanted to know. Aren't you excited? More to the point, anyone who has an older trailer with a 6300 converter should be careful with LEDs, and with newer electronic devices like your inverter.

Bill

yes I understand now how it works. Before this happened I just thought everything ran off the batteries and a charger would charge them up at the same time. Well I was close.
Now with my new converter I won't have to worry for quite sometime.
On another note, if you have not heard from Lee Ann Cook, it turns out they are from Maine also and will be up there in August so I gave her your email address and told her to hook up with you guys. They are very nice folks who have sold there house (in San Antonio) and are presently living full time in their 3124KB until their new house is built. I hope you get to meet them.
Bill, thanks againg for the explaination....you always have the best way of putting things so folks like me can understand. Like me, everyone out there in Trailmanorland should feel lucky that you are our moderator. I know it's not just me, so why don't all of you folks out there show your appreciation for THE MAN! Seems like I never hear anyone tell you "Thank You".

HEY! EVERYONE...WAKE UP! Tell Bill how much we appreciate him. I think there should be a "Bill Appreciation Day" on the forum.....what does the forum think???
Tom

[Padgett]

Agree the Xantrex is pricy & why I do not have one. But also includes enough inverter to run the AC for a while (30-40 minutes from 2 GC2s) and a fast transfer switch so not quite apples to apples, just have not needed yet.

[mmayville]

A/C running in the TM when it is shut off or recycles there is water coming down the ceiling into the electrical channels of the ceiling. It has no extra condensation tube from the top unit. When the A/C is off the water comes from the ceiling Styrofoam down to the exhaust fan then drips at the exhaust fan and the light fixture over the sofa. There has got to be something from the condenser channel (overflow) into the ceiling. This is the only leak my TM has. When I shut down the A/C the extra water seems to leak inside the unit. Any ideas?

[Padgett]

Mine runs down the outside at the street side window. Sounds like you have a missing or corroded drip pan or gasket.