Towing 3023 with Tacoma in AZ

I have had a 2001 3023 that I really enjoy towing up into the Arizona mountains. I currently tow it with a 2010 Nissan Titan, but I really want to downsize to a Toyota Tacoma. Are there any AZ or mountain states TM owners that tow up mountain grades with a 6 cylinder Tacoma? I just know that when I go up a long grades with my Titan, it seems to rev a little high when I have the back loaded down with gear (around 4,000 rpms).

[Bill]

Sherwoodie -

For the situation you outline, the most sensitive - read "damage-prone" and "expensive" - part of your vehicle is the transmission. What you really want to do is monitor your transmission temperature. Plug-in gauges are available - expect to spend a couple hundred bucks for one, but if it saves your transmission, it is worth it 10 times over.

I'm not sure where you plan to tow in Arizona, but I will give you my experiences based on the Valley of the Sun (Phoenix and surrounding area, where my wife and I live).

You can approach the Valley from the north (Flagstaff), along I-17. When you do so, you will find that I-17 drops like a brick thrown out of an airplane as you leave Flagstaff (7-8000 feet) and approach Camp Verde (3000 feet). Some of that is a very steep grade. As you continue south, you will regain some of this altitude, again on a steep grade, and finally descend gently into Phoenix (1500 feet). Of course, when you go back, the upgrades and elevation gain are another challenge.

You can approach Phoenix from the northeast (Payson area) via Route 87. There are some very steep sections between Fountain Hills and Payson, and more as you leave Payson and go up over "the rim". The top of the rim, at Heber/Overgaard, is at around 6500 feet, and since the bulk of the elevation change takes place over 10 or 15 miles, these grades are pretty steep, too.

You can also approach Phoenix from the south (Tucson) or the east (Las Cruces) or the west (Blythe or Yuma) which are relatively flat approaches.

"The rim" is interesting. If you stay north of "the rim", things are relatively flat. If you stay south of "the rim", things are also relatively flat. It is the transition that is the killer. Arizona is not really a challenging state, because of this bi-level geography.

My experience with my small V-8 Explorer (rated above 6800 pounds with factory tow package) is that the transition up over the rim is difficult. The tranny temp rises abruptly, and tries to rise quite a lot. I like to keep the temp below 200, but on these roads it rises to 220 or even 230, even at speed, depending on the outside air temp and the traffic we find ourselves driving in. We've had no problems, but I'm uncomfortable when we do it. A smaller tow vehicle would make me nervous.

So much for my experience in Arizona. The challenges become tougher in places like I-70 west of Denver (very steep grades at 11,000+ feet), or the High Sierras in California (steep grades, high altitudes, and slow speeds). We've done all of these, as well as some parts of the Canadian Rockies. The combination of high altitudes, steep grades, and slow speeds, are quite hard on the tow vehicle. The Explorer and the TM are a great combination, and we have loved being in those places. But relief in any one of those towing conditions helps a lot.

On this board, we have had a lot of discussion about the Tacoma, most of it quite positive. A stroll thought the Towing Rigs forum will uncover it for you.

Now, where in Arizona did you intend to tow?

Bill

Wow Bill, thanks for the informative reply. I do most of my camping up on the rim north of Clint's Well or off Lake Mary Road. We occasionally travel north of Phoenix in I-17, but most of our travel is out of the valley on Rte. 87 (Beeline Highway). The long hill between the Roosevelt Lake turn off and Sunflower coming back into the Valley is really a killer on the transmission. That is the hill that really worries me. I suppose a temperature monitoring gauge and transmission cooler would really help. I will browse through the Towing Rigs forum and see if I find any other encouraging information.

[Bill]

You've chosen a gorgeous part of Arizona to camp in. Of course, there are so many ...

Yes, the part of 87 you describe is a killer. And just south of that is the portion of 87 where the uphill lanes and downhill lanes are braided for several miles, crossing back and forth over each other in order to make the grade. Now that's a weird feeling!

You might also want to try (or avoid!) the Coronado Highway, Rte US 191, between Hannagan Meadow and Morenci. Despite the fact that it is a US highway, just looking at it on a map is enough to scare you. And again, the steepness happens as you drop down over the rim. Think really tight switchbacks, 10 mph posted speeds, no guard rails - and cows standing in the road as you come around the corners! Surprise! We did this in the downhill direction once - I'm not sure I would have the courage to try it uphill. Incredibly beautiful country, though.

By the way, this post belongs in the Towing Rigs section, where I will move it in a day or two. Once moved, you won't be able to see it since your free trail membership has expired. You might think about signing up as a Sponsor.

Enjoy AZ.

Bill

[rvcycleguy]

Last winter we experienced 89A from Flagstaff to Sedona with the TM. Dropped more than 3k ft in 15 miles or less. Decided to not go back up that way to junction with 40 because I did to want to strain the transmission. Although, traveling up 17 was no picnic either...

[T and C]

In reading all these posts I am sooo glad I have a P/U truck. My truck has a transmission temp gauge on the dash, so I can say that although I have towed the TM all over the Sierra and the NM and COLO Rockies at high altitudes I have never had a problem.

The Odyssey is a fine vehicle. My SIL has one and has towed his speedboat over the 11,000 foot pass near Denver, and up to a place in the Rockies at 8000 feet several times. Once we went over the top of Rocky Mountain NP, about 12000 feet, with four adults, luggage, and an 85 pound dog with no sweat at all. Not towing anything though.

I just like not having to sweat the small stuff. The larger tow vehicle gives you a margin of safety in several areas.

Enjoy,

Tom

[hjbourge]

Hi Bill,
I was reading your replay to sherwoodie, you mention something about a plug in transmission temperature gauge. Where do you get one of these and does it just plug into the power port inside the truck? I tow a 2010 2720SD with a 2008 Honda Ridgeline and the factory tow package. We have gone cross country with this from MA to CA and back just had to turn off the AC when we climbed any hills. Other then this I've had no trouble towing this but are thinking of getting a 3124KS so now I have more thinking to do...do I keep my present TV or upgrade to a Ford 150? I've never checked the transmission temperature.

[rvcycleguy]

You'll see many opinions on tow vehicles here. It can be a can of worms. IMO, the more towing capacity the better you'll be. I use a Tundra with a 7100lbs tow rating. Pull a 3124KB and all the gear necessary for a week or two weeks at a time. Can't imagine trying to pull with any less vehicle. The Ridgeline tow capacity is 5k lbs. The 3124TM will be over 4k lbs. The important factors are the GCWR and the GVWR. The gross combined is TV, and TM combined with passengers, gear, etc. Your already borderline, in my opinion.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by hjbourge

Hi Bill ... you mention something about a plug in transmission temperature gauge. Where do you get one of these and does it just plug into the power port inside the truck?

HJBourge -

There are two gauges out there that see a lot of use. Both of them are able to read out your choice of parameters from a long list, most of which you have never heard of and don't care about. In addition, there may be others that I'm not aware of. They are simple to hook up and use. Both of them plug into the OBD-II port that is under the dash near the steering wheel. No separate power connection is needed, no connection to the transmission or hydraulics, and you never need to remove them from the vehicle.

The most popular is the ScanGauge. It will read out 4 parameters at once, which is a good number. In my opinion (and it is only that), it is ugly. But it is cheaper than the second item, the AeroForce Interceptor. The Interceptor costs more, and is prettier, but reads out only two parameters at a time.

Before you order one, you need to be sure (ask the maker!) that it will read out the transmission temperature of your particular vehicle. It seems to me there was a problem for a while with certain Toyotas. Were there others?

Do a Search of this board on ScanGauge (Scan Gauge) or Aeroforce to find a fair amount of detail and discussion.

Bill

[hjbourge]

Thanks Bill for all the information, i'll look into that.