Do I really need trailer brakes?

scribe-FRF

I tut I taw a puddi tat
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Posts
18
This looks like a good place to ask a question about "brake controllers." I have a 2009 Mercury Mariner w/3liter 6cyl motor, 4wd, installed tow package that can evidently tow 3500 lbs but something about the electrical relays limits me to 4pin towing harness which excludes a brake controller. Is a brake controller/electrical brakes essential for even the lightest TM models?
 
This looks like a good place to ask a question about "brake controllers." I have a 2009 Mercury Mariner w/3liter 6cyl motor, 4wd, installed tow package that can evidently tow 3500 lbs but something about the electrical relays limits me to 4pin towing harness which excludes a brake controller. Is a brake controller/electrical brakes essential for even the lightest TM models?

I personally would not consider towing without a brake controller and trailer brakes for anything larger than a utility trailer (ie: 4'x8'). If you're limited to a 4-pin towing harness, I'd question what class your hitch is and whether it's even up to the job??? Is it a Class II hitch by chance? If so, don't tow a travel trailer with it. They're designed to tow utility trailers, maybe a jet-ski, a quad on a trailer, etc... not a travel trailer.

Those that are towing here with 3500# limits are likely doing so with a Class IV hitch that they've had installed aftermarket with a proper transmission cooler, etc...

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I'm right...
 
"This looks like a good place to ask a question about "brake controllers." I have a 2009 Mercury Mariner w/3liter 6cyl motor, 4wd, installed tow package that can evidently tow 3500 lbs but something about the electrical relays limits me to 4pin towing harness which excludes a brake controller. Is a brake controller/electrical brakes essential for even the lightest TM models?"

All trailers over 2000 pounds or so need some kind of brakes in most states. All trailers that come with electric brakes need brake controllers (including TrailManors).

The flat four connector is for brake lights, turn signals, flashers, etc, and the way they come from your vehicle pigtail is just fine for a TrailManor. The wire for the brake controller to the trailer brakes and the wire to provide charge 12v power to the trailer are separate, and in many applications, need to be run separately when they are not provided by the manufacturer. In my trailer connector, the MFR's flat four connector actually plugs into the vehicle-end receptacle to provide the signal, brake, and taillight functions. The other 2 wires had to be run from under the dash (one from the hot side of the ignition switch, and the other from the brake controller).

You cannot infer from the wiring harness the tow rating, whether you have the tow package installed, or whether you have the right hitch or hitch receiver, because many vehicles come with or without these items separately from the tow package (including mine). Any competent RV dealer should be able to help you with this.
 
Last edited:
It should also be noted that manufacturers ratings are based on a brand new vehicle, with all new components with "zero" wear & tear.

In this respect, the OP should feel comfortable that those are serious numbers if he/she is buying a NEW vehicle.

All too often we have posters, that have a high mileage vehicle, that look at the manufacturer's ratings and think that those ratings apply to their vehicle. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

As a vehicle's components wear, this seriously degrades all of the vehicle's maximum capacity capabilities.

A vehicle with a GCWR of 10,000# when new, may only be capable of safely dealing with half that weight @ 100,000 miles. In some cases, that vehicle should not be towing at all.

Think about all of the individual components that go into the make-up of the vehicle's GCWR........ we are literally talking about thousands of components. Many of those components may be at or past half life. Remember, maximum weight ratings are all based on the "Weakest link" principle. The weakest link (in the case of a high mileage vehicle) may literally be a nut or bolt. It could be something as crazy as old anti-freeze (that could contribute to over-heating) or something as serious as a tired brake caliper assembly. For sure, that "weakest link" changes over time and mileage.

The point being..........ALL weight ratings are subject to deterioration over time and mileage.

Having said all that, I towed our TM2720 the a Chevy S10 ~the same weight & ratings as the Ford Ranger. The vehicle is a bit light for the TM IMHO..... when towing with a lighter TV, it's best to use a WDH. Even then, the 4000# TM is a lot of push on the TV. Trailer brakes are helpful but should not be relied upon to be working when they are needed most. That is why I moved up to a full sized PU.

Just knowing these facts can make towing with the Ford Ranger safer, with appropriate caution. I know that it did with my S10. I just got tired about worrying about it. In retrospect, I wish that I would have skipped towing with the S10 and went directly to the full size truck.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes a brake controller is mandatory in most states based on the weight of the trailer (>2000 lbs). Non of the TM's I am aware of are under that limit. Also 3500lb tow limit will most likely mean you can not safely tow a TM unless it is stripped and empty. The fact that you do not have a connector for a brake controller is an indication that the vehicle may not designed to tow heavier trailers Ie class II hitch.
 
Last edited:
As a vehicle's components wear, this seriously degrades all of the vehicle's maximum capacity capabilities.

A vehicle with a GCWR of 10,000# when new, may only be capable of safely dealing with half that weight @ 100,000 miles. In some cases, that vehicle should not be towing at all.

Yes, the older things get, the closer they get to failures, but that's life. There's no question but that towing introduces durability issues, particularly on the "go" side, as opposed to the "stop" side. But, the brake pads and rotors get replaced on a regular schedule. The wear parts get inspected on a regular schedule. The tires get replaced on a regular schedule. It's just silly to make up numbers like 50% unless you have some hard info that goes with this (how about an NTSB study or an incident report?).
 
Yes, the older things get, the closer they get to failures, but that's life. There's no question but that towing introduces durability issues, particularly on the "go" side, as opposed to the "stop" side. But, the brake pads and rotors get replaced on a regular schedule. The wear parts get inspected on a regular schedule. The tires get replaced on a regular schedule. It's just silly to make up numbers like 50% unless you have some hard info that goes with this (how about an NTSB study or an incident report?).
---------------
"A vehicle with a GCWR of 10,000# when new, may only be capable of safely dealing with half that weight @ 100,000 miles. In some cases, that vehicle should not be towing at all".
---------------

If you are referring to the above statement, I absolutely stand by it. There are a lot of vehicles out there with a 100K miles on it that should not tow anything close to what they were rated to tow new. There are some vehicles with 100K miles that shouldn't tow anything or won't even run, for that matter......I don't need any studies to demonstrate that......that's common sence....I'm not sure what your point is........:confused:

Of course, there is everything in between also. It is feasible that a very mechanical owner could actually increase the vehicles ability to handle heavy loads.

However, in almost every case, a vehicle degrades in it's ability to handle the maximum amount that it was rated at new as it ages. However, potential buyers of used vehicles normally use the manufacturers maximum weight ratings as though they were considering a brand new vehicle..........this....is what I am cautioning against. Yes....with regular maintenance, an owner can decrease (or replenish) the amount of wear & tear on the things like brake pads, tires, belts etc. In between those replacement times, those items immediately start to degrade with use. That's why they are referred to as "wear components".

I purposely used the "tired brake caliper assembly" as my example (I have seen trucks and cars with severely over-heated, warped calipers) but I could have just as easily used "Brake fluid" as my example. How many people change their brake fluid?........I would guess, very few. Brake fluid degrades with heat. Anyone that tows a lot (as I do) should replace all of the brake fluid periodically. I replaced all of the brake fluid on my truck when I bought it used (along with all other fluids and wear items).

As I stated, there are literally thousands of individual parts that effect a vehicle's ability to handle weight. In my career as a dealership Service Manager, it has been my experience that MOST owners don't have a clew about maintaining their vehicle, especially when towing or dealing with any heavy loads.

My whole point is, if one is using a TV that is rated (NEW) at or close to what they are currently using it for, they may be over-estimating that vehicles ability. When considering buying a used vehicle, consideration for the fact that more margin for safety should be considered and using the vehicle's NEW weight ratings may be unrealistic.

As a new vehicle ages, an owner should be aware that their vehicle starts degrading those maximum ratings after a very short time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"I purposely used the "tired brake caliper assembly" as my example (I have seen trucks and cars with severely over-heated, warped calipers) but I could have just as easily used "Brake fluid" as my example. How many people change their brake fluid?....."

I don't think a caliper will warp. After all it is just a chunk of machined cast iron. BUT yes a ROTOR will warp. In any case you would not get too far with a warped rotor OR if it could warp, a warped caliper. Driving would be almost unbearable due to vibrations.

As far as safety margins are concerned, they are calculated in a very different way. Unless a TV has been seriously and grossly neglected I think it can safely tow what it is rated at during its life span. True, maintenance is a must. But to say that the capacity diminishes drastically after a short time is plausible. If that was true we would see trucks on the roads fully loaded (new) and gradually carrying less and less as they get older. You get the picture? But I know you meant well.
 
With proper maintenace there really shouldn't be a noticeable down grade in any kind of rating. There are old planes like DC-3's and Ford Tri Motors(still flying today) and they aren't limited by half of what they were originally intended to carry. I know of elevator motors from 1923 and older that run EVERY day and can still carry the same load and run the original contracted speed. If a car is maintained within the factory tolerences a degrade in rating shouldn't be an issue. Poor maintenace and then that is a different story.

The most important factor is the performance of the vehicle(accelerating,control of vehicle, stopping) becomes greatly degraded as you get closer to the max tow rating. Robert
 
Last edited:
"A vehicle with a GCWR of 10,000# when new, may only be capable of safely dealing with half that weight @ 100,000 miles. In some cases, that vehicle should not be towing at all"...

If you are referring to the above statement, I absolutely stand by it...

In my career as a dealership Service Manager, it has been my experience that MOST owners don't have a clew about maintaining their vehicle, especially when towing or dealing with any heavy loads...

Harvey,
If tow ratings degraded nearly this much over the ordinary lifespan of a tow vehicle, there would be evidence in the insurance and accident statistics, lots of warnings from the manufacturers, and they wouldn't be missing this as a way to sell new cars and trucks.

I appreciate the possibility that your suggestions about AC capacitors and propane burner orifices offer value to our members. But my experience as a vehicle owner is that car dealer service departments are where they put phony charges in the “40,000 mile service,” make things up when they don't have the answers, and try to scare people into work that isn't needed. This doesn't help your case with me as you “stand by” your story with nothing else standing there with you supporting your position.

This principle never applied to you while you were towing with an old S10?
 
Last edited:
This one got a bit off topic. The question posed by the OP was whether or not he needed trailer brakes. I looked at the date of the post, half expecting it to be April 1. So the serious and easy answer to the question is YES, you need trailer brakes for a variety of reasons. If you ever have to do a panic stop with your trailer and you do not have trailer brakes, the first thing you will notice is your trailer passing you. This is not a good thing, and it will get messy shortly after this...
 
Yes.....warped brake rotors are quite common and warped calipers are less common. However, our service dept replaced enough warped brake calipers for me to know that it does happen. It was not a "Scare tactic". It was an extreme example. I could have just as easily used rotors, transmissions, ring & pinions, U-joints, torque converters, broken caliper or suspension bolts...........I just happen to think of calipers because I have seen that on light trucks towing trailers or carrying large campers before.

If anyone is having a problem with the 50% number than maybe you are just trying to find something to argue about:confused:......I tried to point out to you that I used the word "MAY"......I thought that you might have missed that but evidently you may not understand the implication of the word.

If a buyer is looking into purchasing a used vehicle with 100K miles on it (to use as a TV), it would be wise for that person to understand that SOME vehicles have been used and abused and an abused, high mileage, vehicle MAY have used up it's capacity to tow by even more than 50%........

A properly maintained and well cared for high mileage vehicle that has not been used for towing before would have much less wear & tear and will have maintained MORE (not all) of it's capacity to be used as a TV.

The point is, EVERYTHING on the vehicle that receives stress degrades over time.....I'm not quite sure what you are taking issue over. If it's semantics....so be it. If you are thinking that things don't stress and brake over time.......then I have news for you......you're wrong. Manufacturers and government agencies have no obligations to worn people that high mileage vehicles may have less capacity than a new vehicle........that's called "Common sense".

As for the S10......I don't have it any longer. It had a 5500# towing capacity (new), which was adequate for the task at hand. It was a great little truck....little truck.....little truck.....:p. It was well cared for and never towed anything or used in any other heavy service but I did not feel comfortable with the short wheel base........what's your point???
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why don't you take this fight offline. It no longer has any relation to the question of the thread.
 
I tow with a 3/4 ton "heavy duty" pickup. The one time I had the TM behind me without brakes, it significantly increased my stopping distance - maybe by 50% or so. Easily enough to end up smashed into someone.

And that's a big, heavy vehicle with about a truck bed carrying capacity of somewhere around 2,000 - so it has pretty good sized brakes.

It's illegal to tow without brakes (for the TM, in most states). Even more importantly it could kill you.

Here's what you need to ask an RV dealer for, at a minimum, for brakes:

To get the brakes back to the trailer, you need a "brake controller". It should cost about $100 in parts and probably about the same in labor for someone who is good at the job. Insist on a "Prodigy" controller as sometimes dealers will try to skimp and put a garbage one in there (it's not worth it for the very tiny difference in cost - do it right). You don't need any relays for the brake controller. You will also need a "7 pin" plug. Since the plug is going in anyhow, they might as well wire in the reverse lights and a wire from your battery for charging the trailer (it's nice to be able to keep your fridge cool on the road, plus it is a safety concern - the trailer's break-away brake system needs a charged trailer battery).

I'd also recommend having the dealer look over your entire rig - just to make sure you don't destroy your vehicle by towing with it. I would not trust the opinion of a dealer trying to sell you a trailer on this, nor would I trust a U-Haul dealer - go to an actual RV dealer that isn't selling you something. You likely will need at the least a "Weight Distributing" hitch which will set you back a few hundred dollars. This is also a safety item if your vehicle needs it - the TM has a very heavy tongue weight for a trailer its' size.
 
Why don't you take this fight offline. It no longer has any relation to the question of the thread.

I disagree........... This discussion is relevant to the issue of any/all TM owners that tow with vehicles that have a 3500# tow rating (as the OP does). It is particularly relevant to anyone that may be considering towing a TM with a 3500# tow rated TV and no trailer brakes. That's what the OP was asking.

I think that it is crucial to understand that most vehicles with a 3500# tow rating should not be towing a fully loaded TM (plus passengers and cargo) at all. Towing without trailer brakes is particularly dangerous (and illegal in most States) and that danger increases as the TV gets older and degrades in maximum ability to handle its GCWR much less, towing over that rating.
 
I think that it is crucial to understand that most vehicles with a 3500# tow rating should not be towing a fully loaded TM (plus passengers and cargo) at all.

Harvey,
You are absolutely right about Every TM needing properly controlled and adjusted trailer brakes at all times. And you're right that people towing with lighter vehicles need to be carrying lighter loads, not "fully loaded" TMs. But what other people choose to do is their business, just like it was your decision to tow your TM with your S10 without a WDH, something I would not have done.

The problem is that you don't actually know much about most vehicles with a 3500# tow rating. You've never driven them, towed anything with them, and most important, you've never read their manufacturer's towing instructions, owners' manuals, or the door post stickers. You should let the people who know about these vehicles do the talking and not be making up rules for other people.
 
Last edited:
In California I am required to have trailer brakes for the TM but not for the ATV trailer.

FWIW, my TM 2720, when loaded, weighs 3380 pounds on the axle. Including tongue weight the total weight of the trailer is around 4,100 pounds.

Maybe you will take a lot less stuff than I do. Most people take about 1,000 pounds of stuff, beyond the base weight of the trailer.
 
Same in Colorado Wayne, anything over 2000 lbs requires brakes I believe.
 
Weights, Brakes, and the laws

I've only studied two states so far, mine (Virginia) and California. Generally, the laws require equipment pretty much like what we'd expect for brakes, lights, mirrors, etc. I'm no expert on the law, I'm just reporting what it says in black and white, and in surprisingly simple and easy to read terms.

The California Motor Vehicle Code is found here: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vctoc.htm

The Virginia Motor Vehicle code is found here: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC4602000

Like Virginia, the concept of "overweight" appears to apply primarily to commercial vehicles in Califorinia. To be legally overweight, a vehicle would have to be more that 20,000 pounds on a single axle, or in California, 10,500 pounds on any single tire. I could find no reference to the things we have been discussing, such as tow ratings, or any references to manufacturer's ratings at all, for that matter, with one important exception.

In California, it is against the law for a tire to be on the road above the maximum tire weight rating specified on the sidewall. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d15/vc35550.htm
For example, when a gross axle rating is the total of the two tire ratings, as it sometimes is, then the gross axle weight limit has the force of law in California.

The Point:
Manufacturers recommended towing ratings do not generally appear have any reference or support in the law. They are just guidelines published by manufacturers to define their recommendations for safe towing circumstances (and to control durability issues, as well). And it all comes down to one key safety concept: at the point of impact, there's always more speed happening than somebody intended.

In towing, there is no magic way to do it where you are absolutely safe, and the point where you are dangerous is a relative term which is always easier to find after the fact. There are no hard black and white boundaries that define good towing people and bad towing people. In between, there's a big gray area that we all have to operate in, and as different people, we have to choose different compromises as we work to make good choices to err on the side of safety.

I highly recommend following all manufacturer's towing guidelines. It is necessary that we follow the law, and the one universal and most important law for towing safety in every state is on the speed limit sign.

Note: If anybody finds something in the laws that contradict this, I'll cheerfully retract any offending parts of this post.
 
Last edited:
California has an exemption for light weight trailers. My ATV trailer, no matter how many ATVs I load on it, does not require a ny brakes at all, because it is a utility trailer with a weight rating below the lime (either 2,000 or 2,500, I forget which).

But, we are discussing TMs here, so a TM in California:

Must have trailer brakes. I think you could use surge brakes, but I would not want to do so.

If they are electric brakes then the trailer must have a battery to operate the brakes in case the trailer separates from the tow vehicle.
 

Similar threads

Try RV LIFE Pro Free for 7 Days

  • New Ad-Free experience on this RV LIFE Community.
  • Plan the best RV Safe travel with RV LIFE Trip Wizard.
  • Navigate with our RV Safe GPS mobile app.
  • and much more...
Try RV LIFE Pro Today
Back
Top Bottom