Solar Panel option on 2720QB.

[MattM1121]

Greetings,
My wife and I are currently in the process of ordering a new 2720QB. One of the options was a 100w solar panel. Does anyone know if this adds more weight to make the opening of the trailer more difficult?

Is it possible to add a solar panel at a later date?

Is it possible to be offgrid with the factory default? We have some electric devices like phones, iPads, maybe a laptop. I doubt we'd put in a microwave. If it is possible how long could a TM stay offgrid?

Thanks for any feedback.

-Matt

 

[Kmikesell]

I currently have a 100W flat panel mounted on the rear shell and it added about 6/8 lbs to the rig, and there was NO problem with opening or closing.

Regarding your second question about being "off-grid" (boondocking). I have two 6V Trogen batteries with approximately 270 Amp hours of power (In actuality it's half of that), but that starts a very long discussion of batteries and that's a whole other kettle of fish. With my current setup, I can run any number of lights (Inside or out), a radio, a toilet, the water pump, and even a HAM radio with very little effect on what is being drawn from the batteries. That is to say, the 100W solar panel supplies most of my daytime power needs.

Usually, my nighttime usage is about 10 to 15 percent of my battery capacity and that is brought up to 100% by about 9 AM (Assuming full sun, and no shade). On heavy usage nights IE washing dishes (water pump), a few LED lights, and watching a movie or two on my TV/DVD combo unit using a power inverter, my usage with be approx. 25-50% of my capacity (YMMV), and the battery was restored to full capacity by 2/3 o'clock.

What I can't/don't run on battery/solar
* Air conditioner
* Microwave
* Hair Dryer
* Refrigerator (on DC power)

What I can and DO run. (Daytime)

* Celieng vent fan (constant load)
* Mini fan (constant load)
* Radio (constant load)
* Toilet (Periotic load)
* Water Pump (Periotic load)
* Charging Cell Phones (Periotic Load)

What I can and DO run. (Nighttime)

* Celieng and Mini fan and fan (If in warm/Hot conditions - constant load)
* Various LED lights (Constant load)
* Radio (constant load)
* Toilet (Periotic load)
* Charging Cell Phones (Periotic Load)
* Charing Laptop (Periotic load)
* TV/DVD combo (Periotic load)
* Water Pump (Periotic load)

There are many variables that I have not covered, but this should give you a good idea as to the capabilities and capacities of my setup, yours should not be radically different. You do need to keep an eye on the battery voltage and adjust it accordingly. For a three-day weekend trip, I could probably get by without the solar adding its "juice" and replenishing the batteries, but with solar, I have little to no concern. For any trips longer than that, the solar is a must-have for me.

I apologize for a lengthy post, I'm sure others will chime in, as well. but I hope this helps. Please feel free wo inquire further! Thatis how we all learn.

 

[Kidkraz]

For me, when boon-docking, I take a couple inexpensive portable battery pack, and connect twinkle lights inside. I do use the ceiling lights when needed. You might ask if the factory can add an external plug, so you could connect a suitcase style solar panel if the need for more recharging arrises.
As to the extra weight, the torsion bars are adjusted to compensate to enable ease of opening.
As Kmikesell said, there are a lot of variables. As you use the camper, you learn the amount of battery power you need/want.

 

[MattM1121]

Thanks for the information. I understand that batteries, generator, solar panels and such are a huge part of RV discussions. It's really a piecemeal topic for me.

Kmikesell, you stated that you have two 6V Trogen batteries. Are those aftermarket items? As far as I can tell there's only one 12v battery that comes with a 2720QB. Is adding a second battery difficult for the layman?

I got a quote from a dealer and one of the options is a 190w solar panel. Are there 190w solar panels for the 2720QB? The site only has 100w as far as I can tell.

Regardless I think I'm going to add a solar panel, so I don't have to try and add one at a later date.

Yeah. Batteries, solar power and generators. That's going to be fun.

 

[Bill]

Matt -

I believe that the only option from the TM factory is a single 100-watt panel. You might contact them and see if they can supply more.

If you can get a dealer-installed 190-watt panel, that is great. But panels of the same wattage don't all have the same dimensions, so it goes without saying that before purchasing you own aftermarket solar panel, you need to know where you will mount it. The TM roof has a number of inconvenient obstructions. Among our members, Wavery in particular seems to have mounted an impressive array of panels.

In the past, the TM battery has been supplied and installed by the dealer, not the factory. In the absence of any other guidance, the dealers often installed an inexpensive Group 24 lead-acid battery, or a slightly bigger Group 27 lead-acid battery. You might be able to buy the TM with no battery at all, so you can add one of your own, and Trojans are a great upgrade. But I don't think the factory will do it for you. Again, contact the factory to inquire.

Bill

 

[Shane826]

Of course I can't find it now but I want to say the SPORT models have 150 or 200 watts of solar to help with the extra battery consumption from the 12V compressor fridge.

 

[rickst29]

In my opinion, the factory option is too "small" (in maximum wattage, provided from the single panel). The included "Solar Power Controller" is adequate for the panel they chose, but it would waste too much of the incoming power in "losses" if you tried to use it with either (a) more panels or a (b) single "much bigger" panel. The factory option is well-integrated, but their price cost includes a reasonable profit margin for the installation, and their stocking of parts.. For the same money, you could obtain a lot more power by doing a little DIY work and buying better parts from highly competitive online stores.

The OEM option is described in terms of the peak power of the panel, near noon on a perfect summer day. The sun angles and clouds vary during each day and also through the year. The expected amount of usable power which the solar system can deliver for battery charging (and small 12V appliances, if run during the daytime) needs a bit of math to obtain,. There are online calculators to help with that (the calculation of total power per day from maximum panel power, adding factors about angles and and sunlight.)
- - -

But my "Simple-Wild-Assed-Guess" (SWAG) assessment is that a single 100W panel won't be able to recharge your back to to "full" before sundown on each day of a multi-day trip, even with the the daily "12v" power requirements includijng only small loads which you described. I recommend at least 200 watts, and that probably also deserves an upgrade into a more expensive and efficient Solar Controller (type "MPPT", rather than the OEM configuration's "PWM" type.

Many owners of 2720 models are happy with 200 or 300 watts. I have the impression that many of those owners started with only 100 watts, and found that they needed to "upgrade" almost immediately following their first camping trips. A few TM people (including me) have gone "crazy" with solar: I can run the Air Conditioner in the desert with no plug-ins or generator, but I spent a huge amount of money, and my system is extremely complex.

If you would like complete instructions for DIY of either 200 watts or 300 watts, feel free to post a request. But you should do that in the "Solar Power" section of the forum. You appear to be a already be a full-fledged "member", so I think that you have complete access to that area of the forum. It's got hundreds of posts, many with detailed examples (photos, disussions) of things we other membes have done.

 

[Wavery]

Greetings,
My wife and I are currently in the process of ordering a new 2720QB. One of the options was a 100w solar panel. Does anyone know if this adds more weight to make the opening of the trailer more difficult?

Is it possible to add a solar panel at a later date?

Is it possible to be offgrid with the factory default? We have some electric devices like phones, iPads, maybe a laptop. I doubt we'd put in a microwave. If it is possible how long could a TM stay offgrid?

Thanks for any feedback.

-Matt

Welcome Matt,

The stock TM isn't really designed for "Off-grid" (what we call "boondocking".

The 100W solar panel will help a small amount and was designed to work with the VERY inept, stock 12V battery. 4, 100W panels would help more but buy them on eBay. There will be a couple different things that you would need to do that and getting rid of that battery would go a long way toward getting into boondocking.

There are extensive discussions on solar and on lithium batteries. There's no point in repeating it all. I suggest that you do some research in the solar section of the forum, then come back with questions.

My 2720SL had 4, 100w panels and a 230ah lithium battery and that is a set-up that actually works for boondocking comfortably.

 

[Bill]

Matt -

As you think about this, you need to bear another thing in mind. Where will you set up your camper?

I spend half the year in Arizona, and we love camping in all parts of the state. In most areas, the sun is hot and bright. That is great for solar power, but it also can make your trailer real hot inside. The usual advice for camping in sun country is to park your trailer in the shade, of course. That keeps your trailer a lot cooler - but it severely limits solar power. Most likely a 100 watt panel won't provide anything close to the nameplate power.

For my first solar setup, I got around this by putting 160 watts of panels on the end of a 50-foot cable so I could park the camper in the shade, and put the panels in the sun. It worked - sort of - but as the sun and shadows moved, I had to move the panels to follow it. That was a pain. Theft was always a fear, but it never happened to me. Wildland camping might be a different story.

In other parts of the country, the sun is often much less hot and parking the trailer in the sun is not as much of a problem. But the sun is less bright, and clouds and even rain are much more common. Again your panel's average daily output may be reduced below your expectations.

Bottom line - Rick and Wavery's 's advice is sound. If you seriously need solar, and are not adding it just because it sounds so neetsy-keeno, you should probably be prepared to add more panels, and a better controller.

Bill

 

[MattM1121]

Thanks for all the great responses. I'm thrilled that the TM forums are so active.

I've been working with a dealer and noticed that they have listed a 190w solar panel. It's not on the TM website so I asked the dealer to verify that it's available and installed at the factory. He got back to me stated that it was a factory installed device, so I went ahead and added that to our optional package. I believe that a 190w SP will be a good start.

My thought process here is to get the wiring and everything needed in place first, then later I can see how well this works and upgrade/add as needed. I've done a lot of research on this, but there's a lot of white noise and information overload for me. So I decided to take this path to see how well it works out. No pain no gain.

We're in the CO area which is why we wanted a hard-shell camper. It's bear country and I'm very concerned about family safety. Just this morning the news stated that there's been 15,000+ bear sightings so far in CO. With the spring coming it's going to be even more. Especially since there will be cubs out as well. We'll also be looking at NV, NM, WY and MO as places to camp. So sunshine won't be an issue.

Bill, I like the idea of the portable panel as well. That's something I've also been researching. Was it difficult to set up? But honestly, I think boondocking isn't on the list of things to do early in our RV career.

Wavery, I did some research and found that the stock batteries can be poor. Especially since it's the dealership that puts in the battery. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement battery that works for you?

Again, thanks everyone for the great advice.

-Matt

 

[Wavery]

@Bill, I like the idea of the portable panel as well. That's something I've also been researching. Was it difficult to set up? But honestly, I think boondocking isn't on the list of things to do early in our RV career.

@Wavery, I did some research and found that the stock batteries can be poor. Especially since it's the dealership that puts in the battery. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement battery that works for you?

Again, thanks everyone for the great advice.

-Matt

Matt

If/when you think that you might want to add a remote solar panel, you'll need to run that panel on a separate solar controller (no big deal) or match the current panel.

As for the battery........ as you said, the battery is dealer installed so you might as well use it for a year or 2 to see how it goes. Once you start boondocking, I think that you will find that battery to not be adequate. Especially for running your furnace. The furnace uses a lot of battery power when boondocking.

At that point, look into a LiFeP04 (lithium) battery. I'd suggest a 200ah battery that has Bluetooth and a heating element (due to your low temps). These batteries are constantly improving so come back for suggestions at that time. If I were to suggest one for today, I might suggest this one. You might consider asking your dealer if he would be willing to give you credit for the lead/acid battery that they normally install and install this one for you. These batteries typically last 5-10 times longer and have about 8x the capacity of the stock battery. You can read the battery stats on your phone.

https://www.amazon.com/12V-200Ah-Bl...8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

[Bill]

Bill, I like the idea of the portable panel as well. That's something I've also been researching. Was it difficult to set up?
-Matt

Matt -

I did my portable panels way back in 2004, when panel prices were still stunningly high. I was one of the original members of the AZ Wind-Sun Solar group, and at that time knew as much about solar as anyone here - no longer true. There was a lot of discussion on this Forum - many threads - about then-new ideas in solar for campers. One of them, in which I discussed my portable installation and showed a pic of the finished product, is here, in Post #35
https://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1034&highlight=portable.
As the picture shows, I made up simple tilt frames for each panel out of aluminum angle stock, and simple but rugged carrying cases out of Masonite. The same approach should work today, and none of it was difficult to make or use.

My experience with portable solar is summarized in Post #38 in the same thread. Perhaps they will give you some ideas.

Bill

 

[Knotty-TMO]

Just a quick note. Rigid solar panels stop producing electricity if a shadow falls on them. Pretty much 100% of the panel must receive sun for it to work. Even small areas of shadow can make them useless.

 

[rickst29]

Just a quick note. Rigid solar panels stop producing electricity if a shadow falls on them. Pretty much 100% of the panel must receive sun for it to work. Even small areas of shadow can make them useless.

Flex panels have the same issue, but the cells in any kind of panel are always wired in groups. The "head" end of each group is wired with Diode, to prevent current leaking into a low-voltage group from any higher-voltage groups. When a really dark shadow covers cells in one group while other groups are under sun, the other groups (AKA "strings" of cells)continue to perform well.

General shading reduces power quickly, but the amount of shading might not make them totally "useless". In fact, some of newest bifacial designs have been designed to degrade output (under shade) more slowly than panels from just a couple years ago.

 

[rickst29]

I was one of the original members of the AZ Wind-Sun Solar group, and at that time knew as much about solar as anyone here - no longer true.

You might have had me in mind, but I disagree - you are an equal expert.