Trying to figure Out RV Power wires VS Solar controller Wires Hooked to Battery

[Steph-WO]

My TM cam with the 30A Solar Controller. Going to expand my battery bank by one battery to make it 3, add a 100W inverter, and a really good battery monitor with shunt. I want to rewire to use buss bars instead of connecting everything to the batteries. The problem I have is TM did not label the two set of + and - wires currently connected to the batteries. One set is part of a bundle that runs behind the shower against the outside wall. Both are #10 and the+ has 30A inline fuse. The second set seem to run under the shower and the + is #10 with an inline 30A fuse and the - is #8. Since the controller is under the sink I assume the wires running under the shower would be for the Controller. I have sent a couple e-mails to TM and have heard nothing back. If they would have just labeled the wires it would be easy. My other concern is why is the 1 - wire #8. Wires should always be the same size.
One more issue. The dealer wired the 2 batteries when it was new and they wired them incorrectly. They are in parallel but they have both + and - hooked to the front battery. They should have one from the front battery and one from the 2nd battery to even out the load. They also did not install any fuses on the batteries. Just proves a lot of dealers do not know much about electricity.

Opps, one more, I am going to put everything in the left storage area in the 2922. It now houses the batteries. I was thinking of mounting a board on the outside wall of the TM and then mounting everything to that board. Would the outside wall support the board plus the master switch, buss bars, shunt, 2 30 Amp inline circuit breaks instead of inline fuses, and potentially the 1000W inverter that weighs 6Lbs?

Any suggestion on how the determine for sure which set of wires are RV power and controller for sure is appreciated

 

[Wavery]

Pictures would help a lot in this situation.

You are certainly right about using busbars for your connections. DC circuit breakers are also a great idea (Be sure not to get AC breakers).

If you are talking about using a mounting board on the back wall, under the bed, be sure to account for the bed brackets that swing in against the back wall. I mounted my solar controller and meter back there. I'm sure that more could be mounted if you plan carefully and keep everything as high as possible, for weather. The remainder of my equipment is mounted on the back wall of the rear cabinet.

You might want to rewrite your questions and number them so that they are easier to refer to. That's a lot of questions.

Are you getting a "Pure Sine Wave" inverter? 1000W won't run much. Certainly not the microwave or coffee pot. On the other hand, those items will draw your batteries down pretty fast.

 

[rich2468]

I have a (2021) 2922KB which came from the factory with solar so hopefully I can share some perspectives about your wiring...

#1. The 30 Amp factory installed solar controller installed in the sink cabinet has two sets of wires. One set is from the factory solar panel. The other set goes to your battery (or batteries). The back/bottom of the solar controller is labeled (potentially very faintly) with which wires go to which connection. If you're unable to physically see the label on the solar inverter, you could always disconnect the (positive) solar cable at the solar panel connector and then use a multimeter to test the connections on your solar inverter to see which ones still have power (meaning that set goes to the battery).


(Safety notes:
If you do disconnect the positive wire to your solar panel, cover the connections temporarily with electrical tape and protect from potential grounding.
Also, in testing, never disconnect the battery connection from a solar inverter before removing the wires connecting your solar panel. Doing so will damage the solar inverter.)

#1. Continued- Yes, you have two sets of wires going from your batteries. One set should be connected to the factory installed solar charge controller; the other set will be connected to the DC side of your power converter.

To determine which battery wire set goes where:
(While not hooked up to Shore Power) You should be able to loosen your power converter and slide it out into the hall area far enough to see the battery wires coming into it (on the 12 Volt side of the converter). Have an assistant watch the wires at your battery as you move the converter 12 Volt wires to determine which set go to the converter vs. which set go to the factory solar inverter.

#2. From prior posts, I believe that your 2922 is a slider model and despite front camper differences, the rear compartment dimensions are the same as my non-slider. I had plenty of room in the left storage compartment to relocate/ upgrade all of my onboard power needs there and still have room for storage. I'm sure you likely would, too.

This past Fall I upgraded my Solar Panels, Charge Controllers, and battery bank significantly and still have space in the left compartment to carry additional items. My 2922KB came from the dealer with a single lead acid battery on the tongue; I relocated my battery to the rear left storage compartment when upgrading to Lithium Ion Phosphate.

I still need to get some wire anchors in place to clean up my wire routing, add some reinforcement to my battery rack, and finish wiring the DC-to-DC charger.....but you can see there's still plenty of storage space available despite having a 3K Watt Inverter, two Solar Charge Inverters, a DC-to-DC charger, multiple breakers/ fuse, bus bar, master shut off, battery shunt, and 4 batteries. I've attached lightweight metal shelf material I picked up at Lowe's to the studs on the front wall of the storage cabinet to use as a rack space holding most of that equipment.

 

[Steph-WO]

I have determined which set of wires are for the charge controller and RV power.

I am still uncertain why TM has#10 for + and #8 for - coming from the TM power. I pull the converter out and at the converter both connects are #10. I have talked to Jacob and he say he has no idea.

Jacob also say there is no easy way to pull the existing factory installed solar wires out since they are part of a wire bundle that is wrapped together. It will not hard to just cut off the existing wires and install new wires exactly as they are now coming down the lift arm. This means I will need to drill a hole in the floor of the TM in the rear left storage area. QUESTION, any reason I cannot do this/ Rich how did you bring the solar cables into the storage area?

I was going to go with a charger inverter but change my mind because I would have to run wires under the TM to the area where the electric panel is. Then drill another hole to bring the + & - wires into the TM. QUESTION, any other thoughts/

I do not drink Coffee and do not use a Micro. In calculating ny daily watt usage I came up with 1958Wh. If I add the Frig on Ac it was 2657Wh. I always run the Frig on propane if not hooked to shore power. So, I went with the 1958Wh. That calculates out to a 1300W inverter. All the companies I talked with said to go with a 1000W Pure Sign, since I would never be using over that at any one time.



Currently this is the design
1. 3x 175W Flexible – Wired in Parallel – 450W (across the entire back shell)
2. Volts -19.5
3. Amps – 28.5
4. Fuses/ Circuit Breakers
i. 30A before charge controller
5. Wiring
i. 10 AWG for all connections all the way to the Charge Controller
Specifications
6. Optimum Voltage 19.5 Open Circuit Voltage 23.0V
7. Optimum Current 8.98A Open Circuit 9.5A
8. Maximum Current 15A
9. Short Circuit Current 9.5A x 3= 28.5

Solar Charge Controller Renogy 40A MPPT
1. Wiring - 10AWG to battery
2. Fuses/Circuit Breakers
i. 40A between battery and Charge Controller
Specification
2. Charge Current - 40A
2. Solar Wattage – 80 to 600W - 3 175 W = 550W
3. Battery Range – 6 to 15.5V – 3 AGM in Parallel 14.4V
4. Maximum Solar Input 37.5A - 3 175W in Parallel = 28.5A
5. MAX PV Input Voltage = 28 to 35 – 3 175 in Parallel 23V
6. Max Fuse solar/Bat 60A – NEED 40A

Battery Bank – 3 Weize 12V Deep Cycle AGM 110AH
1. Wired in parallel – 12V 330 AH
2. Watts 1,200 per battery
3. Fuse Sizes
i. Fuse size - 1200/.8/12 = 125V per battery
ii. Fuse size Bank - 3600/.8/12 = 300A between bank and on/off switch
4. Wire size
i. Between Batteries - 2AWG
ii. Battery + to Buss Bar – 2AWG
iii. Battery – to Shunt, Buss Bar- 2AWG
iv. Battery to breaker, master Switch and Buss Bar – 2AWG

Inverter
1. 100W Pure Sign Wave
2. Blue Tooth enabled for remote monitor
3. Remote on/off switch
4. Wire size - 4AWG
5. Fuse/Circuit Breaker 100A
6. Both + & - connect to the Buss Bars

Battery Monitor
1. 550A
2. Control panel mounts inside the TM
3. Blue Tooth enabled for remote monitoring
4. - from battery connects to B1 pole and then to Buss Bar
5. Small + wire connects to controller and then to Buss Bar.

 

[Steph-WO]

Hi Rich,

Your install is very nice. That is the area where I will install everything. In the new TM's they place the battery in this area. However, they actually cut a hole in the floor so battery sits just above floor level. Looking at your install, I think i will remove the initial battery and put a board over the entire floor so I am working with a level open area. I was trying to figure out how to work around the battery inserted into the floor. The answer is, don't. Modify. Thanks for the pictures.

 

[rich2468]

I was able to use the use the existing factory wiring path for my solar installation.

I just routed down the top shell side and lift arm as the factory did and used the same (factory made) hole underneath the rear storage for routing my solar cables into the space behind the tub which opens into the left rear compartment. (after removing the factory wire)

You'll notice that the factory has also installed a grounding block on the frame close to the location of that underside wiring hole. I'd recommend running your new grounding wires through that same hole and utilize the existing grounding block.

I'll be happy to post pictures, if you need an example.

One thing I need to bring up: Your expected battery weight (@ 210 lbs) along with the other items will probably put your electrical equipment at close to 230 lbs.

The 2922 Series of TrailManors are much more prone to sway issues if too much weight is placed behind the axle. I know the price is steep, but you could easily cut your battery weight in half and end up with more usable capacity if you transitioned from AGM to Lithium Ion Phosphate.

One final thought- You need some way of getting your Inverter power inside the living compartment. Are you planning to put in a dedicated "Inverter-Powered" 120 Volt outlet or using an auto switch to wire it into you power converter (so that all TrailManor 120 Volt outlets can be powered)?

I'd suggest the easy approach and just do a single outlet (which you will need to add to your list), due to you staying with a 1000 Watt Inverter.

 

[jagizzi]

Stephene1219,

I am not sure if your TM 2922 power system is designed the same as my 2720 but if it is I don't know why you would have to route inverter/charger cables through the floor and under the TM. Isn't the power center directly behind your power wall?

In my case it is and that wall is thin and easily cut. You can cut an access hole into the area under the tub that holds the Power Center and run you cables through there without the need to go through the floor.

 

[rich2468]

Hi Stephene1219,
I've got a correction regarding the factory underside hole for solar. I had a chance to get under my TrailManor yesterday and take some photos.

It's likely you have two holes underneath which go into the very small space between the tub and the left storage compartment wall. See the attached photo...

In the center of the photo is the access hole closest to the power converter. That's the hole closest to the grounding block (I previously mentioned). It's where the factory has run Romex for shore power and has ground wires from the power converter to the frame. As I've installed a 3K Watt Inverter, I've also used it for my Inverter ground. I also have a front shell solar panel array which enters through this hole (that wiring runs past the bathroom fan to the left).

To the upper right in the photo is the hole that the factory made for the factory installed solar panel which was installed on the rear shell (this hole is closest to the outside wall). I've replaced/ upgraded my rear shell solar and was able to continue to utilize that access hole.

I hope the earlier mention of the single access hole didn't cause confusion.

 

[Bill]

Stephene1219,
I am not sure if your TM 2922 power system is designed the same as my 2720 but if it is I don't know why you would have to route inverter/charger cables through the floor and under the TM. Isn't the power center directly behind your power wall? <snip> That wall is thin and easily cut. You can cut an access hole into the area under the tub that holds the Power Center and run you cables through there without the need to go through the floor.

If you decide to cut the needed access hole for the wires, I'll offer a quick note of caution, so you won't be as dumb as I was. Years ago I started to cut that same access hole, though in a somewhat larger square size. I fired up my Sawzall and was making good progress until it suddenly hit me that the wall of the tub was right up against the other side of that wooden wall. I came within a hair of running my Sawzall right through the wall of the tub.

Most likely you already have a factory-installed access panel at the left end of that wall. Through it, you can see exactly where the the tub is, and avoid cutting it when you create the access hole for the wires. My old TM did not have that ready-made panel.

Bill

 

[Steph-WO]

Thank you for the picture and info. I have attached a picture that shows for my 2922 2022 model they have completely changed how they routs the wires. There is just one hole now and a large group of wires come from the back of the TM with no wires coming from the front. I believe I can cut the current solar wires and pull them out and then and be able to feed the new wires into the hole.

I love the TM but they really have no CS to speak of. Jacob is great but he gets telling me he is just a tech and my questions are out of his ability. Their manual is out of date, there wiring diagram is out of date and as far as I know they do not have a diagram of how the wiring is run in the TM. It is a shame with such a great product they pay so little attention to the CS details.

 

[Steph-WO]

If I have to cut a hole I was going to drill down behind where the power center is located. I have 90 degree which make this pretty easy. It will be in the 50s tomorrow in Maine, so it will be like summer. I will be working on this. My TM is in a large 30" long building so can keep it expanded.

 

[rich2468]

Thank you for the picture and info. I have attached a picture that shows for my 2922 2022 model they have completely changed how they routs the wires. There is just one hole now and a large group of wires come from the back of the TM with no wires coming from the front. I believe I can cut the current solar wires and pull them out and then and be able to feed the new wires into the hole.



I love the TM but they really have no CS to speak of. Jacob is great but he gets telling me he is just a tech and my questions are out of his ability. Their manual is out of date, there wiring diagram is out of date and as far as I know they do not have a diagram of how the wiring is run in the TM. It is a shame with such a great product they pay so little attention to the CS details.

Dropping the second hole for solar and running all wiring through the single underside hole beside the frame makes a lot of sense if done at the time of build, but that definitely makes retrofitting harder.

I was able to find enough room at that location to add my inverter ground wiring and also the wires for my (second) front shell mounted solar array.

In my power installation work, I've routed most of my wires through the tub plumbing trap door in the far left of the rear storage compartment.

There's a large bundle of wiring which runs in the floor space between the tub and the rear compartment. Routing my new wiring through the trap door has ensured that I didn't drill or cut into that bundle (or even the tub, itself).

There's not much space between the tub and the back storage wall and it is not easy to push the solar cable in from the underside of the TrailManor. It would probably be beneficial to have the power converter pulled out as far into the hallway as possible so you can see the progress of the solar wire as you work it in from the bottom.

I didn't do it that way (when feeding the wire in from my front solar array). I had my wife use a ”U" bent metal clothes hanger inserted through the tub water supply access panel and fished into the space behind the tub to hook and pull the solar wires to the tub plumbing access panel as I pushed them in from below.

Good luck with your installation. This is certainly doable, but tedious work.

Rich and Lynn
2021 2922KB

 

[larsdennert]

#10 wire is generally 30A rated. Best not to use a 40A fuse/breaker on it. Keep in mind on some TMs the 12V wiring is wired like 120V wiring with the hot "positive" being black and "negative" being white. Best to double check with a volt meter.

Also #4 wire is not rated for a 100A breaker. Why would you use #2 everywhere else and then not to the inverter which is the load? You'd be better off putting the inverter near the batteries and then running cheap romex at 120V to your distribution point.